Macros and PK

[darkestsun]

So where these, aka "scam", people come from again?

What are the rules?

As I understand, a person creates a character with a mob name with INTENTION to go to hunting zone so he will be automatically targeted by players automatic macro. I don't know whole mechanism how a player on automatic macro gets pk and how he is even allowed to attack non flagged character posing with monster name. 

OK, this exists, I myself was tried few times now, I watched the whole thing, I was behind keyboard drinking my coffee when famous NAIA, snow that knows nothing, goes to HB and does these dirty works. He got nothing from me just some pink nicknames, he carried on onto other groups. People get pink, people get pk, people drop gear, funny people collect it and call it a day.

Questions:

If this "scam" requires character posing with monster name, why it is allowed? 

Character creation with a monster names is AN INTENTION to act upon this infamous "scam" and harass people's gear out abusing this automatic macro features. Why people with this INTENTION aren't being suspended and offered different names or being banned for doing it again?

I remember something about "oh you can't leave character on macro hunting, you have to watch it". Sometimes server gets laggy, I do run my ISS and mage, when switching between, I can see one character has a delay, sometimes it's even ~30-60 seconds. If my macro is not right, I can be abused by them in that delay time. I can do nothing about it.

Let's go back to INTENTION to abuse. 

WHY PLAYERS CLEARLY WITH AN INTENTION TO ABUSE THIS ARE STILL ALLOWED TO RUN IN THE GAME POSING WITH MONSTER NAMES? 

It's not about "he flagged me", "he pk me", "he took my spot". It's about payer harassment with an intention to steal their gear, without me knowing and holding CTRL button. 

WHY PLAYERS CLEARLY WITH AN INTENTION TO ABUSE THIS ARE STILL ALLOWED TO RUN IN THE GAME POSING WITH MONSTER NAMES?

Please, don't post stories. 

Please do something about this. It's back. And people are taking advantage of it again. 

[mixa]

I'm 24/7 on macro and I have no problems at all.

Probably some lamers using badly made macros get the short end.

Try to learn how the game mechanics work and you'll be fine on macro.

Good luck!

[darkestsun]

It's about people that intentionally abuse this to harm players. 

Do we do something about it or not?

 

[ZooArcher]

New to the l2store. Party bubble lv.1

Puts a invulnerable force field around your party.. It turns the area you hunting into a safezone. limited effect range. Duration 30mins. Mobs are not effected, and will still be aggro.

Special buy 1200ncoin buy100 @30% discount.

[darkestsun]

5 minutes ago, ZooArcher said:

New to the l2store. Party bubble lv.1

Puts a invulnerable force field around your party.. It turns the area you hunting into a safezone. limited effect range. Duration 30mins. Mobs are not effected, and will still be aggro.

Special buy 1200ncoin buy100 @30% discount.

Please make your own comedy thread and I won't mind to stop by and post some comedy gold too.

Does community want to solve this problem?

[GentlemanJim]

This is one of the few problems that NCWest did address, by adding various options to the "next target" command.  You are asking a question that has already been answered.  True, the answer wasn't to ban the people involved, but to change the game so that an intelligently created macro solves the problem.  But the problem was addressed.

[GentlemanJim]

Or, perhaps, you are really asking a different question -- should players be banned for ANY effort, whatever its nature, to take advantage of the game mechanics to grief another player.  I'd answer that question "no, such issues should be decided on a case-by-case basis (by real GMS who know what they are doing)" but at least it's a reasonable topic for discussion.

[Helv]

You can't ban people for the supposed intentions. What's next? Orwell's thought crime  and thought police?

Players themselves are bringing the l2 apocalypse...

[darkestsun]

This question was sparked by other thread, where a player was banned for stalking and harassing other players all the time. 

These are some guys that run from field to field, everyday, abuse the system to get other player gear.

Why not give warnings or suspend acc for some time? 

Is it hard to give warnings by gm/admin/cm?

Why game masters aren't taking at least some actions to stop this? Nobody is asking for lost gear back, I ask for warnings to those players. It's not hundred of players, it's just a few that stir this honey pot. 

Or is it just me this concerned about other players well being? or people that lost gear never actually send a ticket but complained about it whole week on global chat. 

Let's say they successfully "scammed" me and I dropped +14 gloves. I go and look everywhere I can find them, pk every single one on that clan, demand a refund, keep killing them whenever I see them. By the example in another thread I will be banned and they will get away with it. Believe me I would hunt them till they loose energy to log in. 

Rules have to be rewritten and by the recent gm actions in game it has to be done. 

Do it here, because other thread is just "muh feels", "I don't like you". 

[GentlemanJim]

"Scammed" you how?  By taking advantage of your inability to write a proper macro to avoid it?  Personally, I'd ban you in a heartbeat for the actions you describe above.  I'd probably ban you anyway for those actions, whatever the provocation.  But I do agree with you that the rules of play should be clarified and consistently applied.  I'd happily abide by whatever rule is handled that way, even one that let you vindictively pk at will.

[GentlemanJim]

Helv, why not?  Intent is a fundamental element in most crimes in the real world.  It distinguishes between murder (premeditatively intending to kill), all manner of lesser charges (based on various actions and intents) and accidental death (not intending to kill or harm at all).  If it's good enough for capital punishment (or life in prison), it's good enough for banning.

[ZooArcher]

Umm, so if i PK ingame now i should expect to have a warrant for my arrest in the real world?

Damn... 

Anyone seen ready player one?

Lose everything when you die.. thats more like IRL consequences.

 

[Dargor]

Have you any idea how many npcs there are and how many of those npc names are commonly used words -or names-? You don't even need to have an exact mob's name on a character to be targeted with a /target command. There are next target options as well as certain setups to pretty much safely afk macro. If you insist on using /target <mob name> then that's too bad, although you could still make it work in a limited way though. As for the guy who got banned, well, he isn't really saying the full story and why would he?

[tazerpie]

clearly he doesnt mean that, but he has a point on intent.

 

I myself lost an item just the other night, and not more than 5 mins from stepping away from the computer to do something. i come back... BOOM -38K RP!!
The gm's put in place this selectivity of /targetnext, but they ignore the rest of the mechanics that are at play. i mean, come on - the players know more about the mechanics of the game than the GM's? how is this so? for example, all these wynns using /targetnext, but their summons dont follow the same rule... so forced to keep it in passive mode 24/7

 

Also, and kinda linked in my opinnion, It used to be that the GM's had an online presence every day, were there to help and answer; now you raise a ticket and get 'The PK system is working as intended' - so by that reckoning, did the GM's intend the system to be flawed so you would lose your items and forced to PK ppl who you didnt mean to? Seems like more bull*** to me, working as intended is working how they wanted, and why waste our time farming at all, if you farm your whole life to make 105 just to lose all your items to a morron that abuses the mechanics after a few days of trying.

[Helv]

15 hours ago, GentlemanJim said:

Helv, why not?  Intent is a fundamental element in most crimes in the real world.  It distinguishes between murder (premeditatively intending to kill), all manner of lesser charges (based on various actions and intents) and accidental death (not intending to kill or harm at all).  If it's good enough for capital punishment (or life in prison), it's good enough for banning.

Intention is relevant after you have committed a crime, but you do not know the reason why people are doing certain things before they happen. You may only suspect.

If you suspect that someone may want to commit a crime, for example a terrorist attack, you can call the police so that they investigate. But you can't lock people up simply because they rented a white van.

Also, I am amazed how difficult it is for people to understand that if you leave your character afk on a macro, you do it at your own risk. It's been said multiple times that macros have not been created for the purpose of afk grinding. If you are watching your character no one will scam you off your items by making you go red multiple times.

[GentlemanJim]

Helv, of course not.  But we've been talking about intent of a person after he has apparently stalked and pked a whole clan of people for months, or the intent of someone who goes around looking for macro victims he can scam, then scams them.  That's after the crime.  Anyway, you are technically right about macros.  It's a little like saying, in the real world, "it was okay that I took the woman's purse because she fell asleep with the purse on the seat beside her."  But I recognize this is not the real world, and scamming folks on macros is taking advantage of people foolish enough to go afk with a poorly constructed macro.  Sad that anyone would seek to get ahead in the game in such a cruel way, but probably not bannable.  On the other hand, people who ruin other people's games by vindictively stalking and pking for months should be banned for life.  "Guilt by association" is no excuse for ruining people's game.

[darkestsun]

No, I didn't loose anything. I'm here to understand rules.

18 hours ago, GentlemanJim said:

 by vindictively stalking and pking for months should be banned for life.

So this is not what these "scammers" are doing intentionally in a weird way?

There aren't many people that do this, this problem can be rid off very quick.