Open Letter to NCSoft/NCWest

[Galador]

First, I would like to say that I have always been a fan of the world of Lineage ever since I began playing Lineage I in 1999.  The real life friends I have made through the game will endure long after we dismount and hang up our weapons for good.  Having played a wide variety of MMOs on the market over the years, Lineage II is by far one of the most visually stunning games on the market.  It continues to be my “go to” recreation when I want to de-stress from a long day at work.  Second, I cannot speak for everyone who plays Lineage II.  I can only speak for myself and my experiences in the game, which may vary considerably from other players.

As I write this letter, I am reminded of an interview by GameSpot back in 2003 with Raoul Kim, then lead game designer for Lineage II.  I quote, “RK: While Lineage II is basically intended as a solo-play game, we also gave significant consideration to group play as well. In fact, you can have a lot of fun either way. There are a lot of things to do and a lot of adventures in the game when you play solo. Grouping together with others is much more critical at higher levels of the game. That's when castle sieges occur and when players must group together to overcome high-level monsters. Overall, people can enjoy the game either by playing alone or by playing with others as a group. We made sure that people will have fun in both cases.”

I was fortunate to participate in Lineage II’s Closed Beta, Open Beta, and Prelude to going live.  Based on those experiences the first character I created was a crafter, and the second was an archer.  Through Chronicle 5 I was our clan’s primary crafter for equipment and materials.  During this time pro-farmers took control of the markets and made it difficult for normal players to earn their own way without engaging in RMT.  I will also say that 3rd party apps have always been part of the game.  From dark elf assassins on Talking Island the very first day to near invincible parties in castle sieges, normal players have always had to endure those who bypass legitimate game mechanics in pursuit of their desire to dominate through any means.  To be blunt … cheating IS cheating.  Enough said about that.

In recent years NCSoft/NCWest has tried to administer changes in game mechanics to address what I would call “bad human behavior,” including botting and RMT.  The result was a more restrictive gameplay environment for the normal player, and a game market that is out of control.  Crafters became irrelevant and most have been deleted or sidelined.  I know as I deleted by first character awhile back.  The game moved to “Free to Play” and became even worse for players and more players became dependent upon on RMT or paying through the nose for “events” that used to be free to all players.  Remember the early Squash events?  They were great!  I get it that developers were, at some point, trying to “fix” areas that players complained about.  But that seems to have been thrown out the window en lieu of a system designed to extract as much revenue as possible out of the player base without providing commensurate game satisfaction.

The current state of the game is as bad as I’ve ever seen it.  As a clan leader, it is impossible to support the needs of my clan members because we are unable to “farm” or “quest” for what we need.  While there is a fast track for leveling a toon up to level 105, organic equipment provided in the game is useless for normal game play.  Forget Raoul Kim’s intent for an enjoyable game for all.  Forget the opportunity to earn in game rewards or be able to build a character up without spending an inordinate amount of $$$.  The element system and vitality system instituted in the past few years has driven the market to a place where many players have no choice but to engage in bad behavior, spend a lot of money, or quit.  And believe me, I have personally witnessed this through my own clan members.  And it’s frustrating as hell because I do not condone bad behavior.

Realizing that this forum has zero chance of instigating any meaningful changes to the game, here are some changes that could benefit the player base and keep this wonderful game alive for years to come:

1.       Do away with the vitality system in its entirety.  All the vitality system has done is drain the economy as people try to level at a reasonable rate.  Adding xp/sp stats to items is fine.  All you need to do is create a reasonable exp wall and wallah!, players will engage.  It was brutal when the game began, but paying for it is just stupid.

2.       Return to a meaningful crafting system and adjust drops appropriately.  If you hunt in a 115 area, you shouldn’t be rewarded with 110 level items.  That’s building down, not up.  You should be rewarded with items that can get you to the next level. 

3.       If you truly want to make the game effort-based and fair, make items across the board non-tradeable and create a store where people who want to spend money instead of farm for items can do so.  It shouldn’t be “either/or.”  It’s the only way to make the game RMT free.  I’m sure this isn’t popular with many, but that doesn’t make it not true.

4.       Balance out the element system.  Right now, because people can’t afford gear, they can’t play in the vast majority of hunting areas at their level.  I understand making the game a challenge, but making it unplayable isn’t the answer.  The game is supposed to appeal to different types of players.

5.       Fix the help system by providing more information on game mechanics.  In years gone by, fan sites worked hard to build decent data centers so people could figure out what they were doing.  Most, if not all, have long since died or are not public.  Information sharing is your best friend, whether you accept that or not.  Now it’s just a guessing game for most and frustrating.

6.       And finally, please bring back some meaningful quests that give good rewards and decent xp if you’re successful.  The few instances and a handful of dragons isn’t sufficient to support a wide-ranging player base.  Lineage used to have some great storyline-based quests that fed the RPG perspective of the game.  Let’s go there again, please.

I’m sure there are those that vehemently disagree with some or all of what I’ve presented here.  That’s okay.  I’m just one person with one point of view.  There are only a handful of us left who have been here since before the beginning.  We’ve hung in there through all the ups and downs.  Why you ask?  Because it’s a great game.  There are always going to be those that complain, but ignoring everyone to avoid the background noise is not the answer.  Time to change your tune to the benefit of all current and future players of Lineage II.

[Cloey]

I read it with a pleasure.

I personally started L2 at almost the same time back in 2000 while we were buying access codes in order to play

It was pleasure to play Bounty Hunter TO await for mobs to become blue after successful spoiling and to await for the result of sweeping

Great times

[lelu]

This is why I stopped playing this game last year.  It got too expensive to maintain a good level.  You should not have to max out credit cards in order to play a game.  Most of my old clannies left for the same reasons.  Events are a complete joke now, and holiday events one of the best parts of the game, not this "attendance reward".  NC has gone the way of the lunatic goose and focused only on profits, not the people that are actually providing the profits for them.

[Arkidis]

Let's post this on Korean forums !

[oldcrumpyman]

I agree with all that and i find the letter ver very nice BUT Nc dont care about the game they care only about money and how they gonna get more from you

 

[gabby]

On 10/7/2022 at 12:52 PM, Galador said:

First, I would like to say that I have always been a fan of the world of Lineage ever since I began playing Lineage I in 1999.  The real life friends I have made through the game will endure long after we dismount and hang up our weapons for good.  Having played a wide variety of MMOs on the market over the years, Lineage II is by far one of the most visually stunning games on the market.  It continues to be my “go to” recreation when I want to de-stress from a long day at work.  Second, I cannot speak for everyone who plays Lineage II.  I can only speak for myself and my experiences in the game, which may vary considerably from other players.

As I write this letter, I am reminded of an interview by GameSpot back in 2003 with Raoul Kim, then lead game designer for Lineage II.  I quote, “RK: While Lineage II is basically intended as a solo-play game, we also gave significant consideration to group play as well. In fact, you can have a lot of fun either way. There are a lot of things to do and a lot of adventures in the game when you play solo. Grouping together with others is much more critical at higher levels of the game. That's when castle sieges occur and when players must group together to overcome high-level monsters. Overall, people can enjoy the game either by playing alone or by playing with others as a group. We made sure that people will have fun in both cases.”

I was fortunate to participate in Lineage II’s Closed Beta, Open Beta, and Prelude to going live.  Based on those experiences the first character I created was a crafter, and the second was an archer.  Through Chronicle 5 I was our clan’s primary crafter for equipment and materials.  During this time pro-farmers took control of the markets and made it difficult for normal players to earn their own way without engaging in RMT.  I will also say that 3rd party apps have always been part of the game.  From dark elf assassins on Talking Island the very first day to near invincible parties in castle sieges, normal players have always had to endure those who bypass legitimate game mechanics in pursuit of their desire to dominate through any means.  To be blunt … cheating IS cheating.  Enough said about that.

In recent years NCSoft/NCWest has tried to administer changes in game mechanics to address what I would call “bad human behavior,” including botting and RMT.  The result was a more restrictive gameplay environment for the normal player, and a game market that is out of control.  Crafters became irrelevant and most have been deleted or sidelined.  I know as I deleted by first character awhile back.  The game moved to “Free to Play” and became even worse for players and more players became dependent upon on RMT or paying through the nose for “events” that used to be free to all players.  Remember the early Squash events?  They were great!  I get it that developers were, at some point, trying to “fix” areas that players complained about.  But that seems to have been thrown out the window en lieu of a system designed to extract as much revenue as possible out of the player base without providing commensurate game satisfaction.

The current state of the game is as bad as I’ve ever seen it.  As a clan leader, it is impossible to support the needs of my clan members because we are unable to “farm” or “quest” for what we need.  While there is a fast track for leveling a toon up to level 105, organic equipment provided in the game is useless for normal game play.  Forget Raoul Kim’s intent for an enjoyable game for all.  Forget the opportunity to earn in game rewards or be able to build a character up without spending an inordinate amount of $$$.  The element system and vitality system instituted in the past few years has driven the market to a place where many players have no choice but to engage in bad behavior, spend a lot of money, or quit.  And believe me, I have personally witnessed this through my own clan members.  And it’s frustrating as hell because I do not condone bad behavior.

Realizing that this forum has zero chance of instigating any meaningful changes to the game, here are some changes that could benefit the player base and keep this wonderful game alive for years to come:

1.       Do away with the vitality system in its entirety.  All the vitality system has done is drain the economy as people try to level at a reasonable rate.  Adding xp/sp stats to items is fine.  All you need to do is create a reasonable exp wall and wallah!, players will engage.  It was brutal when the game began, but paying for it is just stupid.

2.       Return to a meaningful crafting system and adjust drops appropriately.  If you hunt in a 115 area, you shouldn’t be rewarded with 110 level items.  That’s building down, not up.  You should be rewarded with items that can get you to the next level. 

3.       If you truly want to make the game effort-based and fair, make items across the board non-tradeable and create a store where people who want to spend money instead of farm for items can do so.  It shouldn’t be “either/or.”  It’s the only way to make the game RMT free.  I’m sure this isn’t popular with many, but that doesn’t make it not true.

4.       Balance out the element system.  Right now, because people can’t afford gear, they can’t play in the vast majority of hunting areas at their level.  I understand making the game a challenge, but making it unplayable isn’t the answer.  The game is supposed to appeal to different types of players.

5.       Fix the help system by providing more information on game mechanics.  In years gone by, fan sites worked hard to build decent data centers so people could figure out what they were doing.  Most, if not all, have long since died or are not public.  Information sharing is your best friend, whether you accept that or not.  Now it’s just a guessing game for most and frustrating.

6.       And finally, please bring back some meaningful quests that give good rewards and decent xp if you’re successful.  The few instances and a handful of dragons isn’t sufficient to support a wide-ranging player base.  Lineage used to have some great storyline-based quests that fed the RPG perspective of the game.  Let’s go there again, please.

I’m sure there are those that vehemently disagree with some or all of what I’ve presented here.  That’s okay.  I’m just one person with one point of view.  There are only a handful of us left who have been here since before the beginning.  We’ve hung in there through all the ups and downs.  Why you ask?  Because it’s a great game.  There are always going to be those that complain, but ignoring everyone to avoid the background noise is not the answer.  Time to change your tune to the benefit of all current and future players of Lineage II.

Don't worry Galador, @Wisp will give a very lengthy and detailed response. They said they valued communication so we can all wait for them to respond as this was a very well thought out response to the growing player base concern. 

 

Right @Wisp ?? 

[gabby]

3 hours ago, oldcrumpyman said:

I agree with all that and i find the letter ver very nice BUT Nc dont care about the game they care only about money and how they gonna get more from you

 

Here in is the issue, they would get MORE money because MORE people would play.... look at GW2 it is wildly more successful that L2 atm, and they are anything but P2W.  

[Hellbender]

On 10/7/2022 at 3:52 PM, Galador said:

First, I would like to say that I have always been a fan of the world of Lineage ever since I began playing Lineage I in 1999.  The real life friends I have made through the game will endure long after we dismount and hang up our weapons for good.  Having played a wide variety of MMOs on the market over the years, Lineage II is by far one of the most visually stunning games on the market.  It continues to be my “go to” recreation when I want to de-stress from a long day at work.  Second, I cannot speak for everyone who plays Lineage II.  I can only speak for myself and my experiences in the game, which may vary considerably from other players.

As I write this letter, I am reminded of an interview by GameSpot back in 2003 with Raoul Kim, then lead game designer for Lineage II.  I quote, “RK: While Lineage II is basically intended as a solo-play game, we also gave significant consideration to group play as well. In fact, you can have a lot of fun either way. There are a lot of things to do and a lot of adventures in the game when you play solo. Grouping together with others is much more critical at higher levels of the game. That's when castle sieges occur and when players must group together to overcome high-level monsters. Overall, people can enjoy the game either by playing alone or by playing with others as a group. We made sure that people will have fun in both cases.”

I was fortunate to participate in Lineage II’s Closed Beta, Open Beta, and Prelude to going live.  Based on those experiences the first character I created was a crafter, and the second was an archer.  Through Chronicle 5 I was our clan’s primary crafter for equipment and materials.  During this time pro-farmers took control of the markets and made it difficult for normal players to earn their own way without engaging in RMT.  I will also say that 3rd party apps have always been part of the game.  From dark elf assassins on Talking Island the very first day to near invincible parties in castle sieges, normal players have always had to endure those who bypass legitimate game mechanics in pursuit of their desire to dominate through any means.  To be blunt … cheating IS cheating.  Enough said about that.

In recent years NCSoft/NCWest has tried to administer changes in game mechanics to address what I would call “bad human behavior,” including botting and RMT.  The result was a more restrictive gameplay environment for the normal player, and a game market that is out of control.  Crafters became irrelevant and most have been deleted or sidelined.  I know as I deleted by first character awhile back.  The game moved to “Free to Play” and became even worse for players and more players became dependent upon on RMT or paying through the nose for “events” that used to be free to all players.  Remember the early Squash events?  They were great!  I get it that developers were, at some point, trying to “fix” areas that players complained about.  But that seems to have been thrown out the window en lieu of a system designed to extract as much revenue as possible out of the player base without providing commensurate game satisfaction.

The current state of the game is as bad as I’ve ever seen it.  As a clan leader, it is impossible to support the needs of my clan members because we are unable to “farm” or “quest” for what we need.  While there is a fast track for leveling a toon up to level 105, organic equipment provided in the game is useless for normal game play.  Forget Raoul Kim’s intent for an enjoyable game for all.  Forget the opportunity to earn in game rewards or be able to build a character up without spending an inordinate amount of $$$.  The element system and vitality system instituted in the past few years has driven the market to a place where many players have no choice but to engage in bad behavior, spend a lot of money, or quit.  And believe me, I have personally witnessed this through my own clan members.  And it’s frustrating as hell because I do not condone bad behavior.

Realizing that this forum has zero chance of instigating any meaningful changes to the game, here are some changes that could benefit the player base and keep this wonderful game alive for years to come:

1.       Do away with the vitality system in its entirety.  All the vitality system has done is drain the economy as people try to level at a reasonable rate.  Adding xp/sp stats to items is fine.  All you need to do is create a reasonable exp wall and wallah!, players will engage.  It was brutal when the game began, but paying for it is just stupid.

2.       Return to a meaningful crafting system and adjust drops appropriately.  If you hunt in a 115 area, you shouldn’t be rewarded with 110 level items.  That’s building down, not up.  You should be rewarded with items that can get you to the next level. 

3.       If you truly want to make the game effort-based and fair, make items across the board non-tradeable and create a store where people who want to spend money instead of farm for items can do so.  It shouldn’t be “either/or.”  It’s the only way to make the game RMT free.  I’m sure this isn’t popular with many, but that doesn’t make it not true.

4.       Balance out the element system.  Right now, because people can’t afford gear, they can’t play in the vast majority of hunting areas at their level.  I understand making the game a challenge, but making it unplayable isn’t the answer.  The game is supposed to appeal to different types of players.

5.       Fix the help system by providing more information on game mechanics.  In years gone by, fan sites worked hard to build decent data centers so people could figure out what they were doing.  Most, if not all, have long since died or are not public.  Information sharing is your best friend, whether you accept that or not.  Now it’s just a guessing game for most and frustrating.

6.       And finally, please bring back some meaningful quests that give good rewards and decent xp if you’re successful.  The few instances and a handful of dragons isn’t sufficient to support a wide-ranging player base.  Lineage used to have some great storyline-based quests that fed the RPG perspective of the game.  Let’s go there again, please.

I’m sure there are those that vehemently disagree with some or all of what I’ve presented here.  That’s okay.  I’m just one person with one point of view.  There are only a handful of us left who have been here since before the beginning.  We’ve hung in there through all the ups and downs.  Why you ask?  Because it’s a great game.  There are always going to be those that complain, but ignoring everyone to avoid the background noise is not the answer.  Time to change your tune to the benefit of all current and future players of Lineage II.

Hello Galador

Clan member Steve (ErosCupid) here. Thank you for your terrific post in the forums. Let's see if you get a response from the powers that be.

 

[Wissp]

Thank you for many years of continued support, as well as taking the time to provide such detailed feedback regarding the state of the game and potential improvements. I will be sure and pass the information along to the departments and individuals who may benefit from your perspective.

[TheBuffer]

23 minutes ago, Wissp said:

Thank you for many years of continued support, as well as taking the time to provide such detailed feedback regarding the state of the game and potential improvements. I will be sure and pass the information along to the departments and individuals who may benefit from your perspective.

[MrE]

4 hours ago, Wissp said:

Thank you for many years of continued support, as well as taking the time to provide such detailed feedback regarding the state of the game and potential improvements. I will be sure and pass the information along to the departments and individuals who may benefit from your perspective.

Allow me to translate ... We here at NC Soft West DON'T CARE. We DON'T CARE if we would make significantly more money. WE DON'T CARE if we would have a larger player base... WE DON'T CARE.. because if we DID care, we would run our server like all the other L2 servers. 

[BDeyes]

13 hours ago, Wissp said:

Thank you for many years of continued support, as well as taking the time to provide such detailed feedback regarding the state of the game and potential improvements. I will be sure and pass the information along to the departments and individuals who may benefit from your perspective.

thats the longest definition of dev/null ever.

[Slycutter]

12 hours ago, MrE said:

Allow me to translate ... We here at NC Soft West DON'T CARE. We DON'T CARE if we would make significantly more money. WE DON'T CARE if we would have a larger player base... WE DON'T CARE.. because if we DID care, we would run our server like all the other L2 servers. 

That is the sad thing, they have the largest pool of players to pull from and they do nothing to increase profits or server populations lol

[admin33]

It's a nice attempt, but I don't believe it's possible to change things with these comments, it's a company that despises its customers, even those who give good comments and constructive criticism.

Really sad, and I know that it doesn't just depend on Wispp, he does the best he can, within its limitations, the problem is in the company's mentality, the way it found to make profits, while the happiness of the players fades .

 

Sadness....