Alexandrielle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Shakedown said: It's actually not a bad solution.... If you think w/e portion of the 80% of the server that are unhappy with the state of the game "who don't already have vip4" will pay for vip4 to make the game normal then don't run a business, my man. 1x rates free +15/30/45/60% adena/drop/spoil per vip lv is comfy as bleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepsky Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alexandrielle said: If we are currently sitting at 25% adena and everyone is saying they want an answer / fix or they will leave the game, what makes you think this is a good idea. I understand from NCSoft point of view it is important to drive revenue while keeping (real, non-bot) players happy. I can kind-of see what the current model is going for, but also believe it fell short of its goals. I think this would be a great adjustment to their current model -- it would keep those seeking to spend a few bucks happy with their own nostalgic experience that most closely resembles that of the original game, but allowing newcomers to experience it as well and decide if they'd like to spend the same cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsuo Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Its quite simply really. If rates arent fixed people will hit a progression wall around C grade especially if they werent able (or smart enough) to upgrade their weapon first. Right now the game hamstrings progression much more severely than it did back in 2004/2005. I could run SS, Pots and save to upgrade to Brig armor. Now you cant even run SS without worrying (unless you buy through the shop ofcourse). The shady, predatory practices implemented into Classic are by design, fleecing money from gamers full well knowing they still wont have the means to progress gear wise and thus content wise. I suspect D/C/B grade armor sets to be released to the store soon once those remaining become desperate! The game will be a ghost town in 2-3 months if NCSoft/NCWest greed prevails.. There will still be bonuses for CEO's but redundancy for the actual workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Alexandrielle said: If you think w/e portion of the 80% of the server that are unhappy with the state of the game "who don't already have vip4" will pay for vip4 to make the game normal then don't run a business, my man. Nope, you just pay to access the game in a realistic manner, and it's not an unreasonable amount either. Any console game or PC game now is $50 to buy and often has a premium access or whatever to access real content for ~10-15$ per month. It's consistent with the industry and I figure it's the solution they will find. Probably has nothing to do with anything we said here, it's their only option within their power and pretty obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orocso Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Alexandrielle said: If you think w/e portion of the 80% of the server that are unhappy with the state of the game "who don't already have vip4" will pay for vip4 to make the game normal then don't run a business, my man. i don't see any other way to make the game profitable, the same 80% of the server that dont pay for vip4, would be less happy to pay for a subscription. I would meet the players halfway to make the VIP cheaper. How do you think NC is going to make money out of the server to pay for staff, servers and updates? it is not like they run ads. The alternative would be boosting that l2 store, which isn't a very good idea, LIVE has proven that or even l2 revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrielle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I'm not saying don't have a vip system that gives boosted rates. I want that in. I'm saying that it shouldn't be 0.25x to 1x at lv4. It does not need to literally be 4x as powerful. That's my only quarrel with the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Orocso said: i don't see any other way to make the game profitable, the same 80% of the server that dont pay for vip4, would be less happy to pay for a subscription. I would meet the players halfway to make the VIP cheaper. How do you think NC is going to make money out of the server to pay for staff, servers and updates? it is not like they run ads. The alternative would be boosting that l2 store, which isn't a very good idea, LIVE has proven that or even l2 revolution. Instant quit for probably 75%+ of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Alexandrielle, well, maybe. The big problem with the VIP4 is the $50 buy-in. The $16 a month to maintain it isn't so much different than the original subscription price, considering the 14 years of inflation. It's not terribly unreasonable to ask people to pay what they paid back then to get the rates they got back then, especially if they keep the free teleports easy leveling quests and such for everyone, including the free players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrielle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Lawman said: Alexandrielle, well, maybe. The big problem with the VIP4 is the $50 buy-in. The $16 a month to maintain it isn't so much different than the original subscription price, considering the 14 years of inflation. It's not terribly unreasonable to ask people to pay what they paid back then to get the rates they got back then, especially if they keep the free teleports easy leveling quests and such for everyone, including the free players. I agree. But when you buy an expansion for an mmo, let's say wow for instance. You buy the expansion (4k nccoin buy in) then you pay for the sub (maintaining the sub) If you then take a break from wow and come back you don't need to pay that 50 again do you, you just pick up the small sub fee which is reasonable. My understanding of vip is that you would need to pay another 50 again which is all sorts of bleeped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lawman said: Alexandrielle, well, maybe. The big problem with the VIP4 is the $50 buy-in. The $16 a month to maintain it isn't so much different than the original subscription price, considering the 14 years of inflation. It's not terribly unreasonable to ask people to pay what they paid back then to get the rates they got back then, especially if they keep the free teleports easy leveling quests and such for everyone, including the free players. You can spend $20 a month and slowly "buy in" to VIP4, it is not required to be all at once. I also think a $30/subscription would be very reasonable, given its 14 years later. I'd pay it. @Alexandrielle Good point about the return penalty, weakness of the model over a pay to play model I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepsky Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alexandrielle said: I'm not saying don't have a vip system that gives boosted rates. I want that in. I'm saying that it shouldn't be 0.25x to 1x at lv4. It does not need to literally be 4x as powerful. That's my only quarrel with the post. I see your point, and yeah -- maybe it is a little steep and some tweaking can be done to improve it, but I think the general idea is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepsky Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, FatHips said: You can spend $20 a month and slowly "buy in" to VIP4, it is not required to be all at once. I also think a $30/subscription would be very reasonable, given its 14 years later. I'd pay it. What's 14 years of inflation on $15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whzlol Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 the huge problem with removin' fishing is easiest way to get buff emp/vamp w/o boxes. For example someone can play only with one character (pony, why not?) and the only way to be cool with mp/bss economy - use emp buff from fishing. So if you want to remove fishing, even for a while - you should put something like fishing stew in shop for cheap price (adena ofc i mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrielle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, FatHips said: You can spend $20 a month and slowly "buy in" to VIP4, it is not required to be all at once. I also think a $30/subscription would be very reasonable, given its 14 years later. I'd pay it. The website says that in order to qualify for vip4 you need to buy 4000 nccoin within 30 days. Yeah you can spread it out over the course of the month but that is still restrictive enough it will turn people away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 "U.S. Inflation Rate, $100 in 2004 to 2017. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, prices in 2017 are 29.76% higher than prices in 2004. The dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 2.02% per year during this period." -- US Bureau of Labor Statistics So, $15 back then is $19.35 now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, whzlol said: the huge problem with removin' fishing is easiest way to get buff emp/vamp w/o boxes. For example someone can play only with one character (pony, why not?) and the only way to be cool with mp/bss economy - use emp buff from fishing. So if you want to remove fishing, even for a while - you should put something like fishing stew in shop for cheap price (adena ofc i mean) Why should it be easy to get VR and emp without boxes? That sounds like some GOD Live L2 bullshit to me. That kind of shit completely kills support classes, and thus the game, you know. I hate the fact that it's in the game at all. You use to have to you know, make friends or buy services in the game to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stett Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, FatHips said: Boo hoo, mommy he said mean things. What you said was still completely and utterly wrong from both an economic point of view as you applied it to RL (hence my government comparison, you brought economics into it, dummy), and from a common sense point of view as it applies to the game. The poll was non-scientific, of course, lacking any better alternative, the results are statistically significant when compared to an estimation of the games actual population ~few thousand. Most polls require a much less significant sample. You're right about adena being fiat currency, but the critical mass will never be achieved because players will quit in droves, the economy will shrink, because unlike real life, when someone exits the economy their money is reinvested in it, in the game, more often than not adena disappears on inactive accounts and from other adena sinks. This is where you have to stop using economics and apply some common sense. We can strawman all day. You can cry and say people will quit in droves. However, they don't need to act until they can visibly see the trend. Not to make moves in advance. Just seems like more of a social justice warrior / liberal. "DO IT OR ELSE MARK MY WORDS" Typical. "WE WILL QUIT AND NO ONE WILL PLAY YOUR GAME" "YOUR SERVER WILL DIE" The game as old as it is. I wouldn't expect it to be thriving. Let's be honest here. It's providing a niche experience. In other words, it never cared what the masses think. They already talked about all this stuff in the live stream. Every decision will be made based on player progression and population. Until there is a large drop in player count, it would be a bit haste to assume you were correct in your hypothesis. A server losing population is a result in people losing interest. Most of that is inevitable. Especially, in a game as old as this one. However, since its free to play, I don't see an issue with the current game. We will wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KABAL Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Whoever says that VIP4 should have x1 rates for adena/drop/spoil "for the good of the server" is...delusional. If we leave free players behind, they will quit sooner or later, which means around 80% from the total playerbase, which is very bad. As @Alexandrielle said, x1 for free and some 20/30/40/50 increase to VIP's. Or fine, no x1 for free, but no less then .. 70% or so. Letting free players with the rates which we have now, x0.25 or less adena/drop/spoil , is , again , very bad. Anyway , I really hope they will release those..patch notes very soon, so we can know once and for all and move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Alexandrielle, the description is misleading. NCoin purchases accumulate through time with 1320 being subtracted each month. If you spend more than 1320 each month, you eventually hit a 4,000 balance and start VIP4. I agree completely, though, that the $50 buy-in and, as you point out, rebuy-in if you leave for a while, is a real problem. Okay, folks, have fun. Off to play on skelth for a while. Be back to see the maintenance notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whzlol Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, FatHips said: Why should it be easy to get VR and emp without boxes? That sounds like some GOD Live L2 bullshit to me. That kind of shit completely kills support classes, and thus the game, you know. it should be because of chronicles. Classic was always with "fishing gameplay" Support will always more useful because for example you need to farm about 6+ h, right? it means you need 24 fishing stew. but you will get only about 12 for all night. even with ss it will be not enough. And i also didn't said about recharge or another stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whzlol Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Fishing was always part of classic, you cannot disagree w/ me, @FatHips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 @Stett You're right, it's an assumption, one based on statistics and observation rather than emotion (your sjw comment). And you're right, I sound exactly like them, exactly. I suppose we'll either find out, or we won't. What we want is irrelevant anyways. Decisions have already been made. I don't know if you've ever had a hand in software business operations, but most successful businesses do not wait until they lose a huge portion of their customer base to make basic changes to bugs within their product. Those companies come and go, but the ones who last have a much more preventative approach. Reactive management is horrific for stability. You're right about them not caring in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, whzlol said: Fishing was always part of classic, you cannot be disagree w/ me, @FatHips Wasn't a part of what classic is based on. Does not mean it should be in the game. :-) its a negative net effect on the game's politics and economy imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whzlol Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Im actually didn't realise how could it can be bad for economy tho. anyway, fishing good because ppl will make support boxes even with this empo lvl 1 lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lydium Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, FatHips said: You can spend $20 a month and slowly "buy in" to VIP4, it is not required to be all at once. I also think a $30/subscription would be very reasonable, given its 14 years later. I'd pay it. @Alexandrielle Good point about the return penalty, weakness of the model over a pay to play model I suppose. In any normal context I would be more then happy to pay 20-30$ a month to have a constant fun and fair gaming experience. I would never ever however, pay 20-30$ to play while having an active p2w cash shop and that is the main problem here. End of the line is if they don't make it subscription based and kick the cash shop, this is going to be another cash grab and I don't even need to say which of the two is most plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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