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Argus

Othells, dual dagger or single dagger and why ?

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Argus    152

Othells, dual dagger or single dagger and why? Give some more information! Back when I was playing and max lvl was 85 game was different! 

 

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f00dmonsta    3

Dual dagger has more patk for when you want to auto attack more, this could be because of doing raids and you have a competent tank to keep aggro and you can always attack from behind.

Single hand dagger has a *slightly* quicker skill animation, so it's more skill spam oriented.

In terms of quickest damage output, skills will have better burst damage, but even though the cooldowns are pretty low you'll have some "downtime" between skill cycles. I cannot empirically claim which has a better overall dps, but if you spam skills without mana source (recharger or pots or herbs), you'll run out of it.

At end game, if you want to solo the hard areas (e.g. lower GC, superion...etc) you will *need* to use your skills to disable and take advantage of being able to kill from behind as fast as you can without taking too much damage.

An example of the difference in damage between auto attacks and skill damage:

  • You can crit with auto attacks almost 100% from behind ~6k damage, and you hit really really fast.
  • A backstab hits for 25k damage, but will take up ~2-3 swings of auto attack time, and it *might* miss completely. However you also have a good chance (depending on your gear and tat setup) to skill crit, which is 2x by default, but can be boosted up to 2.54x with the right SAs and AP, so that's 63.5k damage, about 3-4x the damage than auto attacking.

So if you have all the correct gear, your stabs will always be better than auto attacks, but for the commoners like us, dual dagger is a good balance between auto attacking and the *very slightly* slower skill animation.

Another factor is a shield. It might be counter intuitive, but a shield lowering your evasion increases the likelihood for you to get hit, so that counter crit (+100% crit damage, stacks multiplicatively, so stabs are another 2x damage) can trigger. In this case single dagger is required. But again, you'd need to possess enough gear for this to make much of a difference.

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Argus    152

Hey, thank you for the explanation! By the time I was waiting for someone to reply I also did a bit of research and judging by the information on the web it seems single dagger is the way to go in pvp, because of the faster skill animation and ( A bit better critical dmg ). There is information that the solo dagger has a bit higher Critical DMG modifier than the dual daggers, but I can not test that since I have only a Kelbim Solo dagger!

If someone has more info about the critical dmg difference between Solo and Dual dagger, please share it here! It will be interesting! 

Cheers

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f00dmonsta    3
2 hours ago, Argus said:

Hey, thank you for the explanation! By the time I was waiting for someone to reply I also did a bit of research and judging by the information on the web it seems single dagger is the way to go in pvp, because of the faster skill animation and ( A bit better critical dmg ). There is information that the solo dagger has a bit higher Critical DMG modifier than the dual daggers, but I can not test that since I have only a Kelbim Solo dagger!

If someone has more info about the critical dmg difference between Solo and Dual dagger, please share it here! It will be interesting! 

Cheers

From what I gathered, dual daggers have 1.5x crit multiplier, whereas single dagger has 2x. However, for stabs the damage is approximately the same, with dual daggers giving a tiny amount more damage due to higher patk.

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Feryl    6
On 5/2/2018 at 6:31 AM, f00dmonsta said:

From what I gathered, dual daggers have 1.5x crit multiplier, whereas single dagger has 2x. However, for stabs the damage is approximately the same, with dual daggers giving a tiny amount more damage due to higher patk.

I think is not so tiny.

Juji said multiplier doesnt apply on skills.

When you use Single you can trigger debuff x2 time (shadow chase effect x2 its op) and faster "animation" skill.

 

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Znipo    41
1 hour ago, Feryl said:

I think is not so tiny.

Juji said multiplier doesnt apply on skills.

When you use Single you can trigger debuff x2 time (shadow chase effect x2 its op) and faster "animation" skill.

 

Double duration/Reset effect works for both single & dualdagger, the passive effect from skill should also be the same.


In short, only difference between single & dualdagger....

Single : faster skill animation will allow you to stab faster, thus better for pvp, moving targets etc. also possible to stab someone right after shadow chase, with dualdagger that is much more difficult.

Dualdagger : more dmg, both normal hit + skills, generally better for PVE.

 

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Feryl    6
8 minutes ago, Znipo said:

Double duration/Reset effect works for both single & dualdagger, the passive effect from skill should also be the same.


In short, only difference between single & dualdagger....

Single : faster skill animation will allow you to stab faster, thus better for pvp, moving targets etc. also possible to stab someone right after shadow chase, with dualdagger that is much more difficult.

Dualdagger : more dmg, both normal hit + skills, generally better for PVE.

 

For Double duration debuff, I feel like land rate is better with single. just my impression, I didnt a test to confirm that.

 

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Znipo    41
20 minutes ago, Feryl said:

For Double duration debuff, I feel like land rate is better with single. just my impression, I didnt a test to confirm that.

 

 

Its the same for both, actually you can remove your weapon & it will still be the same rate :P

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Pleistoros    105
On 3/2/2018 at 10:25 PM, Znipo said:

Double duration/Reset effect works for both single & dualdagger, the passive effect from skill should also be the same.


In short, only difference between single & dualdagger....

Single : faster skill animation will allow you to stab faster, thus better for pvp, moving targets etc. also possible to stab someone right after shadow chase, with dualdagger that is much more difficult.

Dualdagger : more dmg, both normal hit + skills, generally better for PVE.

 

What I dont understand...JuJi made a test years ago and you can see the results here:

http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=248557

The test was made with old SA, aka dual daggers had the advantage of damage up.

I manage to get 2 kelbims... dagger and dual dagger  and i made some tests on a low lvl char-85 lvl mostly naked...results were like znipo said.

I know value per enchant point is diferent from dagger to dual dagger and probably there is an enchant level point like Retri Vs Caster(lower enchant lvl>>>single dagger stronger then dual dagger) and my question....on same SA, same enchant lvl(0-+12 or +15)...a dagger should not outdamage a dual dagger? Something changed in damage mechanic? And when?

Regarding using a shield to lower evasion in order to get damage from mobs...why dont you use a lower enchanted set...+8 or even lower? I saw the vids, Othel look hilarious with shield :D

Edited by Pleistoros

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Argus    152

I got 2 kelbims now, dual dagger and a friend will give me his one handed, will post a test result next weekend.

Guys, tested 100 stabs with same buffs both with 1 handed kelbim and dual kelbim, to be honest.. It is the same, only different animation, gl//hf 

Edited by Argus

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DaLt0n    0
On 23/04/2018 at 4:01 PM, Argus said:

I got 2 kelbims now, dual dagger and a friend will give me his one handed, will post a test result next weekend.

Guys, tested 100 stabs with same buffs both with 1 handed kelbim and dual kelbim, to be honest.. It is the same, only different animation, gl//hf 

Can you post numbers plz?And us know dex or str or mixed setup

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Argus    152

Hello mate, this was aprox ~ 6 months ago, I had +5 dex +10 str and dmg numbers were pretty much the same

still I keep my kelbim dual dagger for my dual class - othell adventurer 104 lvl 

to be honest you will be fine with either dual kelbim/solo kelbim dagger 

if you rly want to see boost in your PVE dmg, ofc +12 Bloody dual dagger 3 sa is the way to go

gl//hf

Edited by Argus

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