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Fr1ck

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Fr1ck    6

Hey guys i was searching the old forums for dagger tips but the problem is that it seems to be extremply outdated even juji's lab that has some spicy mechanic info
My strating questions that come up to my head right now are:
1) Is dual mastery rage (27%skill power) actualy working on dagger or archer skills?
2) at juji's lab says that there is no difference at blow type skills if you wear for example r95light with 6% skill power. Is it still like that?
3)Dex dyes are more preferable thatn STR?
4)What items to rush after weap/armor?(i have b.frintezza,AQ,creation ring,zaken) and i mean talismans,jewels etc(i know erthwyrm gives 20%critdmg)
This for now but i may edit with more questions.

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Feryl    6

Hello;

1) Dual Master Rage applies on daggers (Best Dual skill if you want to improve your damage).

2) Skill Power now applies on daggers too. Juji's lab is outdated.

3) STR all the way. Dex is complete useless (only useful to improve your movement speed)

4) Full damage: All item wich can increase your Critical Damage and P. Skill Critical Damage (a bit better P. Skill Critical Damage). So, Baium (Soul if u can), Ant Queen (Soul if u can), Octavis Necklace (5% Skill Power) or Frintezza (Soul if u can). Tauti Ring + Ruler Ring of Authority or Trasken Ring are the best ring setup for dagger.

Cheers.

Liang 

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Vassy    23

DEX is important for half kills and from my observations decrease skill cd. More Dex = more half/full kills ;) And it's good for PVP as well. So don't go full STR.

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Feryl    6
On 27/2/2018 at 5:19 AM, Vassy said:

DEX is important for half kills and from my observations decrease skill cd. More Dex = more half/full kills ;) And it's good for PVP as well. So don't go full STR.

Dex cant help you decreasing your skill cooldown, only item with physical skill cooldown.

Dex only can help you to increase your speed and "physical skill critical rate" but all blows are "critical skills" thats why P. Critical Damage and P. Skill Critical Damage apply and have the same effect on daggers.

So. Dex is useless. Go full STR.

 

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Vassy    23
11 hours ago, Feryl said:

Dex cant help you decreasing your skill cooldown, only item with physical skill cooldown.

Not only items can decrease skill cd. Test it if you want. I've already tested it and the CD can be felt significantly. 

What 15 DEX change in dagger stats:

No buffs. Adding 15 DEX results:

Accuracy 222 --> 227

Evasion 232  --> 237

P.critical  348 --> 381

Atk speed 841 --> 930

It's all about different playstyle, what lv you are and what mobs you kill what are your APs and dual  and sub skills. On 100+ I can agree- for PVE  go for STR because mobs are more resistant to hk and STR boosts the P. atk.

But still for PVP I consider DEX is a Must.

P.S. Dex and Str can always be modified with accessories so don't bother so much. Legendary DEX is a lot more cheaper than STR one and gives CON as well. Dagger lacks this stat and it is important for not only HP reasons..

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Feryl    6
2 hours ago, Vassy said:

Not only items can decrease skill cd. Test it if you want. I've already tested it and the CD can be felt significantly

What 15 DEX change in dagger stats:

No buffs. Adding 15 DEX results:

Accuracy 222 --> 227

Evasion 232  --> 237

P.critical  348 --> 381

Atk speed 841 --> 930

It's all about different playstyle, what lv you are and what mobs you kill what are your APs and dual  and sub skills. On 100+ I can agree- for PVE  go for STR because mobs are more resistant to hk and STR boosts the P. atk.

But still for PVP I consider DEX is a Must.

P.S. Dex and Str can always be modified with accessories so don't bother so much. Legendary DEX is a lot more cheaper than STR one and gives CON as well. Dagger lacks this stat and it is important for not only HP reasons..

As I said. Dex is useless... Accuracy, Evasion, P.critical and Atk. Speed are Useless stats nowadays. Atk. Speed you can reach maximum (1500) even without sonatas.

Othells play only with skills. You dont need to do autohits... 

Btw, only items with cooldown reduction can improve your skills cooldown. wtf? (ofc buff too)

You need Critical damage and p skill critical damage as much as you can

You need Element Atk/Defense as much as you can

You need Stun Atk/Resistance as much as you can

You need HP as much as you can

PS: Please, read/test about othells and try to understand how they works.

Edited by Feryl
mistake

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Argus    111

DEX is important to Othell Class 

Equipping light armor increases Maximum HP by 4880, Defense by 1506, and Physical Evasion by 20, decreases Critical Damage Rate by 35%, and adjusts Speed/ P. Skill Critical Rate according to DEX. Additionally, increases STR by 2 and applies Assassin's Reflex which accelerates Attack Speed at a 10% chance if successfully evaded.

Depending on STR, skill cooldown can be reset or skill duration can be increases by 2 times.

Edited by Argus
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Vassy    23
2 hours ago, Feryl said:

As I said. Dex is useless... Accuracy, Evasion, P.critical and Atk. Speed are Useless stats nowadays. Atk. Speed you can reach maximum (1500) even without sonatas.

Othells play only with skills. You dont need to do autohits... 

Btw, only items with cooldown reduction can improve your skills cooldown. wtf? (ofc buff too)

Accuracy useless? :D Try to hit mobs bigger than your level or a player if you have low accuracy. Dagger is the weapon with the lowest accuracy stat! Evasion Useless? Really? In a critical situation it's a life saver for dagger!

No one is talking for auto hits.

For atk speed I agree - but I wanted to show that DEX influence this too.

And as I said - I've tested the dex influence with my skill cooldown - and yes - it reduces. Or maybe it's my imagination? Doesn't matter. Whoever wants can test this. Not all people buy prestige packs to have -20% cd..

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Feryl    6
4 hours ago, Argus said:

DEX is important to Othell Class 

Equipping light armor increases Maximum HP by 4880, Defense by 1506, and Physical Evasion by 20, decreases Critical Damage Rate by 35%, and adjusts Speed/ P. Skill Critical Rate according to DEX. Additionally, increases STR by 2 and applies Assassin's Reflex which accelerates Attack Speed at a 10% chance if successfully evaded.

Depending on STR, skill cooldown can be reset or skill duration can be increases by 2 times.

So, Speed is useful. we are agree... but u can boost that stat with others things. (enchant ur critical Chances/Shadow Hunter/Tactics in speed)

P. Skill Critical Rate: complete useless. Othells ALWAYS hit with Critical p. Skills... thats why P Critical Damage and P. Skill Critical Damage both applies in the same way in every blow used.

4 hours ago, marw said:

Feryl you have no idea how it works.

You need min 85 dex, rest str.

Yes, a lot of ppl said that. but pls... tell me why you need 85 DEX.

Dex= P. Skill Critical Rate... only usefull for Yul's.

You can boost your speed enchanting your Critical Chances/Shadow Hunter/Tactics in speed

2 hours ago, Vassy said:

Accuracy useless? :D Try to hit mobs bigger than your level or a player if you have low accuracy. Dagger is the weapon with the lowest accuracy stat! Evasion Useless? Really? In a critical situation it's a life saver for dagger!

No one is talking for auto hits.

For atk speed I agree - but I wanted to show that DEX influence this too.

And as I said - I've tested the dex influence with my skill cooldown - and yes - it reduces. Or maybe it's my imagination? Doesn't matter. Whoever wants can test this. Not all people buy prestige packs to have -20% cd..

Dude, your skills rate doesnt be affected by accuracy. only your autohits.

If u fails skills. you need things that can improve your Vital Spot Attack Rate. (Skills like Mortal Strike from GH/WR)

Evasion is usefull against Evis or PVE, but 1 or 3 points dont make big difference. you have powerful skills that improve your evasion. (thats explain why a lot of ppl use single dagger + sigil (-8 Evasion))

Test your dagger before post things that cant help new ppl.

 

 

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Vassy    23
14 minutes ago, Feryl said:

So, Speed is useful. we are agree... but u can boost that stat with others things. (enchant ur critical Chances/Shadow Hunter/Tactics in speed)

P. Skill Critical Rate: complete useless. Othells ALWAYS hit with Critical p. Skills... thats why P Critical Damage and P. Skill Critical Damage both applies in the same way in every blow used.

Yes, a lot of ppl said that. but pls... tell me why you need 85 DEX.

Dex= P. Skill Critical Rate... only usefull for Yul's.

You can boost your speed enchanting your Critical Chances/Shadow Hunter/Tactics in speed

Dude, your skills rate doesnt be affected by accuracy. only your autohits.

If u fails skills. you need things that can improve your Vital Spot Attack Rate. (Skills like Mortal Strike from GH/WR)

Evasion is usefull against Evis or PVE, but 1 or 3 points dont make big difference. you have powerful skills that improve your evasion. (thats explain why a lot of ppl use single dagger + sigil (-8 Evasion))

Test your dagger before post things that cant help new ppl.

 

 

I'm not dude, you're excused. And I play GH.

Stop talking about Speed please. With more DEX almost every Skill hit is Critical when you use skills!!! You can read this on your Passive skill - Superior Light Armor Mastery. That's why p skill critical rate as SA on weapon  is useless if you have more than 80 DEX on your toon. 

I really want to see if you can hit someone if you're 2 or more levels below him if you don't have accuracy and the person has a lot evasion in general :) Probably all you see will be "miss" "miss"...

What you're talking about is End Game Setup - when you're lv 105. Or you are L2 Store winner with all the last extras like radiant circled, pve cloak +15, boss jewels etc... 

Your advice is not for as the topic says - "newbies" who just started and are far from 101++

Peace.

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Fr1ck    6

First of all thank you all for your contibutions. I understand that there are mixed feelings about dex/str since juji moved on a dead project and lab tests cant confirm the best one for the current state of the game.
I noticed that at least 90% or maybe even all skills are critical when land so fire/death are the best i guess yet i see dagger with hunter on(p.skill crit rate) i guess they dont know the mechanics.
+10 str +5 Dex seems the best way to go i believe for both purposes.
Sadly i will reroll this char since AH is empty of daggers/duall daggers and the few of them are extremply overpriced compared to other class weapons.. R.I.P
You can still say spread you knowledge about the class here so other othels see them.

Edited by Fr1ck

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Vassy    23
4 minutes ago, Fr1ck said:

First of all thank you all for your contibutions. I understand that there are mixed feelings about dex/str since juji moved on a dead project and lab tests cant confirm the best one for the current state of the game.
I noticed that at least 90% or maybe even all skills are critical when land so fire/death are the best i guess yet i see dagger with hunter on(p.skill crit rate) i guess they dont know the mechanics.
+10 str +5 Dex seems the best way to go i believe for both purposes.
Sadly i will reroll this char since AH is empty of daggers/duall daggers and the few of them are extremply overpriced compared to other class weapons.. R.I.P
You can still say spread you knowledge about the class here so other othels see them.

You will give up only because of the weapon?  You can always buy +12 any type weapon and switch it on red libra for dagger or whatever you want. But when will be the next red libra.. I don't know.. maybe in 3-4 months.

On what server you play? Now blessed daggers are cheap. It's good investment to buy one blessed. If it's blessed you will do more damage than a normal one and after you can make it 100% pve or pvp (do it only after +10 if you know you will use HEWR after that because enchanting pvp/pve weapon is with veeery low chance for success..)

And you can always try to enchant it by yourself.. Make it +6 then hit one giant with lesser stone and if you're lucky can go from +8 to +10. Then 2 HEWR (4b each) and voila. But still you will do decent damage with +6 and 2 SAs and nice augmentation(skill critical +15% for example).

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Feryl    6
7 minutes ago, Vassy said:

I'm not dude, you're excused. And I play GH.

Stop talking about Speed please. With more DEX almost every Skill hit is Critical when you use skills!!! You can read this on your Passive skill - Superior Light Armor Mastery. That's why p skill critical rate as SA on weapon  is useless if you have more than 80 DEX on your toon. 

I really want to see if you can hit someone if you're 2 or more levels below him if you don't have accuracy and the person has a lot evasion in general :) Probably all you see will be "miss" "miss"...

What you're talking about is End Game Setup - when you're lv 105. Or you are L2 Store winner with all the last extras like radiant circled, pve cloak +15, boss jewels etc... 

Your advice is not for as the topic says - "newbies" who just started and are far from 101++

Peace.

Your skills are ALWAYS critical Skills. you dont have a "critical hit" like Yul's. Thats DEX is useless. 

If you have 2 lvls less than your target in PvP you have damage penalty and less success rate on your debuffs. When you said "miss miss" are you talking about autohits right? well, you need to use always skills all time. when you dont have reuse in blows, use debuffs.

If you fail your skills. read me in the last post.

Im not talking about End Game Gear, just how othells works in general.

 

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Fr1ck    6

Ok i will give you this challenge, make a new clean char and see if you can do what you said :P lol
I play on chronos and yeah i think its a good reason to give up, have you checked the AH? just a normal weap to get 99 is 1.300kk 

Edited by Fr1ck

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Vassy    23
7 minutes ago, Fr1ck said:

Ok i will give you this challenge, make a new clean char and see if you can do what you said :P lol
I play on chronos and yeah i think its a good reason to give up, have you checked the AH? just a normal weap to get 99 is 1.300kk 

Hmmm I'm on Naia so.... Blessed R99 dagger was 1.2b. I don't know how much adena you have because you were talking about buying a good weapon and I thought you mean above +10 :D Sorry my bad.

Edited by Vassy
correct
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Feryl    6
5 minutes ago, Vassy said:

You will give up only because of the weapon?  You can always buy +12 any type weapon and switch it on red libra for dagger or whatever you want. But when will be the next red libra.. I don't know.. maybe in 3-4 months.

On what server you play? Now blessed daggers are cheap. It's good investment to buy one blessed. If it's blessed you will do more damage than a normal one and after you can make it 100% pve or pvp (do it only after +10 if you know you will use HEWR after that because enchanting pvp/pve weapon is with veeery low chance for success..)

And you can always try to enchant it by yourself.. Make it +6 then hit one giant with lesser stone and if you're lucky can go from +8 to +10. Then 2 HEWR (4b each) and voila. But still you will do decent damage with +6 and 2 SAs and nice augmentation(skill critical +15% for example).

Well, Finally Vassy is right xD. This is a good moment to buy a blessed Dagger and later put Bloody or Dark.

Take in mind this: Is better for adena/boost rate get +4 Bloody Dual Dagger 1SA + 1 Augment 15% P. Skill Critical Damage or P Critical Damaga than 2SA.

Is Better Dark or Bloody than OE.

 

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Fr1ck    6

What are you guys talking about? I never said i want good weap i just asked what to buy first armor or weapon. 
Anyway i already deleted this char since has no future no point of arguing anymore.
And also the things you suggest guys cant help a new player.. jezus you talk for enchants scrolls that cost 4bil? wtf This thread supposed to help new players not old ones xD

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Vassy    23
12 minutes ago, Feryl said:

Your skills are ALWAYS critical Skills. you dont have a "critical hit" like Yul's. Thats DEX is useless. 

If you have 2 lvls less than your target in PvP you have damage penalty and less success rate on your debuffs. When you said "miss miss" are you talking about autohits right? well, you need to use always skills all time. when you dont have reuse in blows, use debuffs.

If you fail your skills. read me in the last post.

Im not talking about End Game Gear, just how othells works in general.

 

Oh come on  I won't bother answering you back anymore, you're not listening and reading and I don't want to educate anyone here.

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Feryl    6
3 minutes ago, Fr1ck said:

What are you guys talking about? I never said i want good weap i just asked what to buy first armor or weapon. 
Anyway i already deleted this char since has no future no point of arguing anymore.
And also the things you suggest guys cant help a new player.. jezus you talk for enchants scrolls that cost 4bil? wtf This thread supposed to help new players not old ones xD

Well, my first post was in general. thats apply in any lvl or situation.

+4 Apo Dual Dagger 2SA and try augment with high grade stones. 10% p skill cd or cd its a good boost anyway

 

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Vassy    23
2 minutes ago, Fr1ck said:

What are you guys talking about? I never said i want good weap i just asked what to buy first armor or weapon. 
Anyway i already deleted this char since has no future no point of arguing anymore.
And also the things you suggest guys cant help a new player.. jezus you talk for enchants scrolls that cost 4bil? wtf This thread supposed to help new players not old ones xD

Depends on the new player :D Can have golden visa ;) 

And you were talking for erthwyrm  ring and this is not cheap one ;) 

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Feryl    6
3 minutes ago, Vassy said:

Oh come on  I won't bother answering you back anymore, you're not listening and reading and I don't want to educate anyone here.

Please test it. play your dagger... make your test, thinking about it and take your conclusion. Im a very old dagger player and i did a lot of test... really a lot.

Im trying to help ppl who can read this and dont make a wrong choice.

 

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Fr1ck    6
Just now, Vassy said:

And you were talking for erthwyrm  ring 

Read again, i just said i know it gives 20%crit dmg so no need to advice on that again... Yeah i have visa and money but also i have a working brain and i wont spend on a dead game for sure, i know the situation with events and p2w so no thanx.
The topic derailed really fast so i want to ask @Conguero to lock it if possible

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Feryl    6
1 minute ago, Fr1ck said:

Read again, i just said i know it gives 20%crit dmg so no need to advice on that again... Yeah i have visa and money but also i have a working brain and i wont spend on a dead game for sure, i know the situation with events and p2w so no thanx.
The topic derailed really fast so i want to ask @Conguero to lock it if possible

Change tittle to Dex or STR and your post will be useful for a lot of ppl.

 

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Fr1ck    6

No i asked some general questions and you 2 made it DEX vs STR, you can go argue on reddit or somewere else.Thanx

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