Class "Revamp" – Sigel Knight

[BurnCycle]

I was refraining from comment further about the changes until i properly tested in a mass pvp situation, and most of my worries are indeed confirmed.

The UD's nerf was expected and, for game play sake, i kinda understand it. The so call tools that were introduced for tanks are completely different story.

Most of this so call tools don't work on a massive PVP situation. Why? cause most of this debuff/skills don't land or have any significant effect on the opposition.

If they didn't made some of the skills completely useless, (like those shield buff skills that have little to no use or the noble sacrifice that have so much reuse time for such a little time effect) i would see the class have some kinda of sense, and i woould probably share some of your opinions that the class was just revamped, but without it is is indeed a big nerf and puts some question on the use of the class in some situations, like mass PVP situations. I could see some partys going from 2 tanks to a 2 iss setup and extra DD.

 

[Keoz]

In Korea, they were so far off as to rotate tanks in party to chain fresh PRescues of PoFaith, just like one used to do with boxed Iss for RBs. They didn't even need to gear them much, because of the dmg cap from tanks' UD was not affected by gear. In some way, the 2 tanks setup lived on the ausence of some limitation in the chained use of UDs, you could easily get near 2 min of invincibility with the 2 tanks + 2 healers setup

You are right in saying that the meta might go back to only one tank per party, but I don't see this as something negative, just a different meta. Tanks have now new tools, and those open space for new possibilities or playstyles in PvP. Mass control skills are different in PvP because of the low landing rate in high geared chars, you need to rely on the new tools

Btw, the new Sacrifice is nothing like the old one. In my view, it's a new UD with 5 min cd, party's undying will for 10 sec+enchant. Enough time to regain some control in a pitch. A kinda hated the mechanics of the old sacrifice, it was a no-brainer-throw-it-at-your-dd-every-2-min

[DTA98]

Is there anyway to just undo this horrible update? I started playing L2 when the Awakening update was launched  and this is by far the worst "revamp" I've ever seen.

My Sigel Hell Knight is still lvl 86 (it's a complicated story...not proud about that ) and it's become a pain in the ass even in the harnak underground ruins...especially while playing solo

[Draecke]

HK is worst tank class this update, nothing will change that harsh reality

my personal biggest compliant with this tank update is that right now it has become clear 1 tank is so much better then any of the others in both PVP & PVE that the long term consequences this will have is quite obviously.. diversification my azz.. we went from 4 viable tanks to just 1 that outshines all others.. oh and the dead of DPS style tanks as even SK will only be wanted for those parties that have strong geared players and we all know how many of those are around lulz

all hail the new king of pvp/pve due to it's best defense & debuff capacity - Eva Templar

[Irlumir]

21 minutes ago, Draecke said:

HK is worst tank class this update, nothing will change that harsh reality

my personal biggest compliant with this tank update is that right now it has become clear 1 tank is so much better then any of the others in both PVP & PVE that the long term consequences this will have is quite obviously.. diversification my azz.. we went from 4 viable tanks to just 1 that outshines all others.. oh and the dead of DPS style tanks as even SK will only be wanted for those parties that have strong geared players and we all know how many of those are around lulz

all hail the new king of pvp/pve due to it's best defense & debuff capacity - Eva Templar

Yea like i say, the difference is just absurd.

When we all where commenting about this change in rochand and as patch note state i realize the only viable option was Evas, and maybe Pala. The 150 more element defence he has is just a lot, combine with 15% more pdef/mdef from base, that both defensive tanks has, put both defensive tanks in a diference just to high from the others. Specially from heavy aoe, the difference is like offensive tank with +10 bloody armor perform equal as a +8 bless armor, as much difference is as that. So, like i say, offensive tank, to perform ok, need top end gear, for all others go for one of both defensive tanks available. To me evas was the winner because elemental, 5% less cooldown ( more skill spamming XD) and cubics. Evas has unlimitted MP , great auto heal, and the other cubic gives for a nice amount of time good speed and a nice shield defence boost, wich also apply as patk when you use two hand stance. In fact the lol thing is defensive tanks perform better in two hand stance than offensive tanks due better overal surviable, can go around without shield, on mid situations ofcourse.  Now pala is also really nice, 10% more pdef he has in aura increase more raise shield and therefore can reduce further the damage from party with POF.

I see something that did not realize before, that aggresion lock target for 5 sec. I dont know if im wrong but i remember, in previous updates, that aggresion only change target, but now it hold target as long as the debuff is on player. Landing rate is OK, so i dont see why tank is less important in pvp, always is function was to anoy, and that skill is really something. 

Well, tank update is not bad, just they screw offensive tanks a lot XD. But some are happy with off tanks, consider that panther add a CW to raids (wich i think get deleted when CW is on, so no stack ?? XD) ..... 

 

[Draecke]

the pvp changes was going from 2 tanks to 1 aka 1 tank lf new job as per this update and that was something we also saw coming but as said above take in account the other changes it's just quite rough for offensive tanks and those defensive pvp tanks that got kicked out of their pvp cp's/had to reroll etc

anyways it's w/e this update made me stop play tank outside sieges/mass pvp as why would I even bother.. heck my tank been 105 forever so I will just use my more usefull 105 Tyrant dual to help those in clan that are not 105 yet or need help with factions etc.

 

[Murkan]

On 08/12/2017 at 7:47 PM, beherit said:

finally, dam! new forum like 3 hours trying to post something.... this is what i ve experimented so far with an lv 102 eva and a lv 99 phoenix. both geared with blessed 99 +6 stuff and basic lv 3 gems.
i have been looking the new skills, and making some mass farming factions.

overall i think this tanks are a lot more fun to use now at least on pve, especially the eva with all those pull skills, i think they actually are a bit more tough now (on "normal" state and spamming focus/rise and with the boost of defensive auras)  it seems the full tanking style of thanks now is based on those 2 skills now (i guess its similar to the evasion skills of ertheias/daggers... mb ppl gonna use them with clickers/macro like on those classes...coz doing by hand was fun the first time, but with the time i guess it gonna become maddening)

on the other hand all ud and survival skills seems to be pretty useless now i actually don't even understand exsactly what they do...., probably the only one that is boosted are the frenzy which have less delay , phoenix cubic is good, but knight was still better, eva cubics are pretty simillar than before just a few second less on debuff inmunity i think and i little less hp heal

other thing that i think is a little stupid right now, is now tank seems to be spamming a lot more of skills, and this could work better with wizz harmony, but shield def seems to be a lot more important than before, so.....

in the case of eva all those pull skills are pretty amazing i got a lot of fun testing it and 101 aura is better than before

the phoenix have a lot of agro skills now (flaying bird, shield, aoe agro, aoe fire agro, burning chain, provoke aura, idk if other) and 1 thing that i noticed is now wen you agro a ranged mob (just tested with bumerang and phoenix) he walk near you (i know this also happend sometimes before, but now is almost always) si dont having pulling skills is not an isue for this guy
actually i tested this lv 99 phoenix on that new 103 area shadow of mother tree faction and worked pretty fine (that's why i think they are more tough than before) (GOS was much more hard actually)

now in the offensive part i only have shitty weapons on them so not tested this 2h stance on action, but i watched the number a bit and i could say this mechanics are in the wrong direction with the new buffs...
i mean now with shield def buffs like knight harmony you have a lot more of attack (with normal weapons, idk how works with good ones) but the missing critical damage from guitar is now only on warrior harmony.... so the whole mechanic of this stance is pretty stupid... (ok i know in korea they did the tank changes  and the buff changes at different times  so maybe they don't thought on this...)

well thats all i got for now, sorry if i overextended, but i needed to share, and read about sk and hell

Good Afternoon (Using Google Translate)

I have an Eva's Templar. When I read the Patch Note, I even thought about it, this time it will, when they mention that the tank was better, and then when we play, no, they got worse. It improved in part in PVE, because Eva's Templar of all tank is the best for this, because it has several skills to pull the mob and this helps a lot, but it got worse, because Tank's damage to PVE got smaller, because it removed the TRUE VANGUARD that gave 60% more in PVE, and consumed 30% more of MP, but substituted with this ability that uses the sword with both hands, increases the damage, but forces the tank to be in a bad position, he simply loses defensive ability and starts to take more damage as his shield skills are deactivated. Sincerely, NCsoft has used this style of play in the past, then changed and back again with it, she thinks that's a maximum, but it's a stance that does not help much, especially when the Healer is not effective at healing, or is not good at what it does, this new stance makes the Tank look like a Tyrr, but made worse. The biggest problem I noticed was that in PVP Tank got weaker, takes more damage, defends less the shield, at least that's what I noticed. In the same Olympics, it is where we realized if the change was good or not, I realized that the Tank simply with the new skills, which are skills that impose too many restrictions, ends up being useless. Example:

 

1 - Final Ultimate Defense: A skill that makes it clear that the maximum damage received is 600, but it depends on your P.Defesa, a skill that continues with 15-minute reuse, because for NCsoft it is a very powerful and precise skill having this reuse, to me, powerful is the Marks of the Summoners that when we received the 4 Marks, we ran out of HP in less than 10 seconds. The worst, put a restriction, ie for you to have this reduction to 600, will depend on your P.Defesa, but at the beginning of the description of the skill, already deceives the player, saying that the maximum damage received is 600. Worse, the skill blocks the use of Reise Shield / Focus Shield, so Final Ultimate Defense, which has nothing of the last defense, has become a rough skill.

2 - Reise Shield / Focus Shield: Interesting, but I noticed that Focus Shield really complies with what the description says, that is, when using it, I do not receive magic criticism, just normal wizard damage, but Reise Shield , the description says something, which does not match, as the damages remain high of the physical DDs. Worst of all, if we use another skill that needs a shield, the effect of these two skills will go away.

3 - Justice Punishment / Vanishing Stun: Formerly it was a skill that had a chance to give silence to magic skill. Today it has changed, it has the effect of reducing by 20% casting speed and atack speed, the more interesting it now makes it clear that it has the chance of silence, either in physical or magic skill for 3 seconds, before it was 4 seconds. The most interesting of this skill, is that her silence takes a little Wizard class, like Healer and Feoh, but it takes the Warriors so easily. The worst is that it should be the other way round, since the Tank hits weak, and the damage done by the Wizard, this includes the Healers are too high, so it's a Tank protection, and it looks like mine is + 10% chance, but even in Feoh lvl low, and especially in Healer, since he fails more in Healer, then it is a skill that does not prove an effective aid as well. in my opinion have to diminish the Wizard's resistance to this type of debuff, to balance things...

 

4 - Shield Wave: I liked this skill, but I complained of the bug, that when the skill is active, it has a lag or lock, especially when fighting another tank, and it hinders the use of other skills, it is another skill that my God, if we use another shield skill, the effect will disappear.

 

Summarizing everything: Tank this garbage for PVP solo. Man, when I go to the Olympics, I could fight well against Feoh, but after Feoh gained this ability, he was active that reduced damage by 95%, and the remaining 5% consumed MP, Tank lost a chance to defeat Feoh, because as it causes little damage, then it will never consume the MP, and since Feoh is extremely resistant to silence, then it got bad, and the worst of it all is that Feoh is a class that damages too high, until Feoh nothing equipped comes to cause 20k of critical magic, this is the weakest and as the tank lost the 100% refletc of Final Ultimate Defense, which helped to burn the MP, and lost the Party Rescue, which changed its name and is now a silly skill, which only increases 50% of P.Defesa / M.Defesa, lasts a little and protects 50% against archer, I find it silly. I also noticed that Tank is taking the Mark of the Summoners easier, and like the Eva's Templar cubes, which improved the healing of the MP only, and has a longer delay, you have no more defense. I've already fought with several Summoners, we used to have a better chance Cubico was more effective in every way, because he healed and debuffed at the same time, not now, a cure and remove debuff, but it has a delay of 10 seconds, the other of buff that leaves you immune to debuff and some bonus that does not help at all, the buff lasts 7 seconds, the reuse of the cube's skill is 15 seconds, I also noticed that even with this protection of 7 seconds, I am debuffing the which should not occur, as the description makes clear: Immune to debuff.

 

The biggest mistake of NCsoft is to make changes in the class and not observe the scenario of the game. They create skill for a certain class, but do not see if this skill will unbalance the game, which it does. When they perfected the Feoh skill so that instead of giving a buff that lasts a few seconds, it turned into an active skill, which absorbs 95% damage, and the 5% consume is MP, NCsoft did this so that Feoh could fight longer and have a better chance against the Daggers and the Archers, but this change made him superior to the other class, like Tank, Iss, etc, because even if we try to win in time, the added damage will be low. That's if we're alive for this, since Feoh's damage is extremely high. That annoys NCsoft, and then it arrives and says that the skill will consume 50 MP per second while it is active, ours, as if that would drain the MP of Feoh that is high. With Feoh's high damage, he will already have won the enemy. 

 

I think NCsoft when it comes to make a change, it has to observe all class, type: If it is to change this ability to resist certain class, it has to see if this ability will not harm other class, making it very strong and impossible for another class to win. I noticed that this change in the Tank, made it weak, even weaker against Feoh, Summoner, Healer, mainly because these class have a lot of debuff, even against Iss, because they are class that fight very liberating Debuff, the Summoner, our, a class that lvl 101 has pets that give high damage, have HP too high, deals damage with summons, effective delay of the cubics is not helping much. Because it is slowly removing the debuffs, and the immunity that the description says, is not happening, because in 3 seconds that was lacking to finish the protection of the cubic, I took 4 Marks of the summoner. Ally, these Marks of the Summoner is absurd that until today I do not understand the reason to exist. It's time for NCsoft to reevaluate all the class, it has to make the Summoner powerful yes, just need NCsoft, but the Summoner today is a magician with two Pets, as you can see that Summoner only uses the Pets for distraction, Marks, to me, these Marks should not all burn HP, bleep, you get 4 Marks of this, when you go to look, your whole CP and half of your HP is already gone at an incredible speed, and Tank that had the most efficient cubes earlier , is taking an easy beating because the Summoner is also more resistant to the new silence, Vanshing Stun simply fails very much in silence against the Wizard and I think this should not happen. 

In my opinion, tank should of course be resistant to debuff, return debuff more easily than any other class, not only 10% like this in the passive skill, since all class is 10%, formerly all tank returned 30% magic debuff and 30% physical debuff were humans. I noticed that a Healer returns a lot more debuff than the tank, just see a tank and healer fight, you will see that the tank receives the debuff itself, much more than a healer.

I hope that NCsoft modifies all class, and I hope that these class also have restrictions on the skill as the tank is having, since most tank skills are full of restrictions, if using such skill, can not use shield skill, if using Focus shield, can not use other shield skills, if using Final Ultimate Defense, can not use Focus Shield / Reise Shield, if using Shield Wave, can not use another shield skill. This limits the power of the tank, meanwhile, the other class can use their skill fully, having gigantic advantages.

[Murkan]

On 11/12/2017 at 11:44 PM, BurnCycle said:

Still hard to believe someone would consider this an update to the tank class. There is no other way to see this, it's a full nerf to the class. (It was already one of the weakest classes in game, now it's THE worst)

When it come to damage they removed the only thing that improved it. This new 2h stance is useless, not that the idea is not interesting, is just that, for some weird reason, tank defense stats is just too weak and the shield removable makes the class one of the weakest in survivability.

It would be fine if the nerf was just on the attack, after all the tanks are supposed to take damage, not to make it. The problem is that the nerf was general!

The basic defense stats are still crappy, an Iss with same sort of gear is able to get almost double of the defense stats of a tank, that says much...

The defense skills were the final nail in the coffin of the tank class. The shield buff skills are too short and are impractical to be used in pvp, (specially since they get removed immediately after the use of a shield skill, and tanks spam them in general) the UD's/Party UDs got a general nerf by adding the lingering effect and by removing the caps on received damage on some skills, then there was the nerfs on some "debuff" skills like the new shield charge that instead of giving an interesting reduce on pdef on the enemy, now gives a slow for 3 seconds. (!!! yes, 3 seconds!) And we have to remember that most of this debuff skills rarely land anymore due to the introduction of debuff resistance items in game! Ohh, almost forgot the noble sacrifice nerf, before you could protect someone by taking 90% of his damage for more then half of time, now you take 50% of damage for the all party for less time and with 5 min reuse! 

When it comes to Auras, the nerf was partial... some classes actually got a small boost on their auras, others made the aura completely useless! (like the HK)

 

As a conclusion, i do understand some of the changes. The party UD mechanics change will make mass pvp way more interesting but i do think it was possible to make those changes without having to make the class completely useless. Tanks should be the class with higher pdef/mdef in game, they are not, in fact they have on of the worst so that could have been changed.

It's sad that they made one more class ingame useless, there already a few basically removed and there are a few more coming (ex: titans will be the next) i honestly don't understand the need to remove classes as playable in game, it used to be one of the funniest things in game, the diversity of classes, apparently the devs want to make the game as 5-6 class only game again. I really would like an answer from them to explain the why...

 

The guys claiming these changes are good, I do not see it, I do not see it like that. I noticed that I'm taking more debuffs from the wizard, especially from Summoner, I used to get more out of it. Silence fails too much in these classes, Summoner, Feoh, Healer, but easy pick up on the Warrior, I agree when you say that Tank yes, has to be the class with the highest P.Defesa and M.Defesa, besides being the class that has more resistance to debuffing, and the class with more chance of returning debuff, since before the GOD upgrade, it had a buff itself, since cube summons are slower and less functional than today, and they are automatic, they do not depend on us. And another, the people forget a detail, remains the class with the least damage of the game along with Iss, but the Iss today, who would say, easy defeat a tank in the Olympics, due to their new skills. Not to mention that most of the tank's skills have casting 3.5 seconds and it's easy to be stopped using them, no one mentions that either. And another one that is quoted by you and it messes a lot and as I mentioned before, the skills have many restrictions, that is, if you use a skill, you can not use this other skill, as it cancels the one that you used. Reise Shield, Focus Shield, Shield Wave, if you use them and use any shield skill, goodbye, cancel everything, if you use Final Ultimate Defense, you can not use Reise Shield and Focus Shield. So, the class was limited in this, because the other class, as they have not undergone changes in the game, are able to do combo of their skills, activate several skills to stay alive and thus detonate, because like the damage of the DDs, is Tyrr, Archer , Feoh, and etc are high, they just need this same time. You get an Eviscerator, which is immune to debuff, HP reaches 1 and does not die, and it causes high damage and with the new UDs, you no longer have to defend Eviscerator as it could in the old UD, since you could use Party Rescue and the old Final Ultimate Defense, not to mention the reflects, see that today, no DD is more afraid of attacking a tank, because the DD knows that it will kill and will not have its damages being returned, and even then, the tank continues to do damage low. The guy says that now, the tank has a skill that simply increases his attack by 150%, but this skill increases all of that, but you have no altuma defense, you can not use any shield skill, or UD, or nothing, is at the mercy and these damages will not be high, you will suffer, because the silence fails a lot in Feoh, and the Tank continues picking up for all the class, only in Lineage 2 that a defensive class takes high damages. NCsoft needs to learn how Tank works in WOW, a friend of mine plays WOW Official and he even said that Tank in WOW beats weak, but there, Tank takes highly low damage, just the player going to administer and that will defeat the DD of it will take time, but I will not die with only damage, as in Lineage 2. But this is also NCsoft's mistake, created many items that interferes with Tank's defense ability, item that decreases the received reflex, high resistance the debuff as aggression, silence and everything else, stun. Because the main weapons of the Tank is stun and silence nowadays, and none of them works right, since it is many items protecting against them, now that Hold has returned to be very used, in a few days, NCsoft creates items and more items protecting against Hold as well.

[Rodah]

On 1/5/2018 at 1:46 PM, Draecke said:

HK is worst tank class this update, nothing will change that harsh reality

my personal biggest compliant with this tank update is that right now it has become clear 1 tank is so much better then any of the others in both PVP & PVE that the long term consequences this will have is quite obviously.. diversification my azz.. we went from 4 viable tanks to just 1 that outshines all others.. oh and the dead of DPS style tanks as even SK will only be wanted for those parties that have strong geared players and we all know how many of those are around lulz

all hail the new king of pvp/pve due to it's best defense & debuff capacity - Eva Templar

I'm sorry man, I can't help but notice the EXTREME irony in your analysis :). 

In the previous chronicle ONE tank was AT LEAST twice as good in PvE as the next best (HK vs SK).  In fact, I would argue that HKs were literally degrees of magnitude better than every other tank in PvE.  You are (were) proof of that.  You could kill mobs 4x+ faster than an SK (2nd best PvE tank) with the exact same gear. 

Yes, in PvP ET has a clear advantage over the other tanks but I don't think anyone would say that they are TWICE as good as a PK or 4x as good as an HK/SK. 

I'm not calling you out or anything but you see the irony here right  

[Irlumir]

2 hours ago, Rodah said:

I'm sorry man, I can't help but notice the EXTREME irony in your analysis :). 

In the previous chronicle ONE tank was AT LEAST twice as good in PvE as the next best (HK vs SK).  In fact, I would argue that HKs were literally degrees of magnitude better than every other tank in PvE.  You are (were) proof of that.  You could kill mobs 4x+ faster than an SK (2nd best PvE tank) with the exact same gear. 

Yes, in PvP ET has a clear advantage over the other tanks but I don't think anyone would say that they are TWICE as good as a PK or 4x as good as an HK/SK. 

I'm not calling you out or anything but you see the irony here right  

Yea . Well the difference ... i was ST and test it deep, at least in pve ( i have a really good knowledge of the skills previous, study 4r4ms videos, korean patchnotes, etc, so i know what was comming and knew that defensive tanks was the way to go) so then i change to evas templar.....

Well to achieve the same performance than a def tank has on +8 bless armor a ofensive tank need a +10 bloody armor on pve (around that maybe a bit less). So is not x2 or near that, but you need with ofensive tanks to have at least +8 bloody to perform ok on pve content, with defensive tank you dont need that.

Before that HK can wear the S grade think draecke use and do AF solo XDD.... so get your conclusions........it was clear HK was overpower and now they are on the right place, with better damage than offensive tanks and less defence (surv)

 

 

 

 

 

[Draecke]

ofc I see the irony.. saw it coming long time ago as Irlumir knows but let's stick to the old situation vs new for a bit here

dps style tanks in old were SK/HK where HK had huge boost from it's aura which could be boosted with the right gear set up but still any tank could do the same upto the point of the aura effect which was 40% pcrit damage boost. Now note that the old True Vanguard was 1. stronger in DPS as it added 60% damage to PVE 2. did NOT block shield passives/active skills - the latter is obviously removed from the new True Vanguard and that is what really makes the difference

in the old situation DPS style tanks could play offensive under all circumstances as they still had access to all their disables & ud's and now the moment they use the new True Vanguard aka 2H Stance - that's all gone..

from party perspective yes HK used to be the better choice in PVE due to the debuf effect of their aura, now I would say the aura's of the offensive tanks have been changed around a bit as when taken in combination of their debuf/disables the SK tank is just much better now for PVE (outside of instances for sure) but at the same time defensive tanks got boosted alot with improved debuf/disables which when taken in account the changes to mobs makes them much better choice then offensive tanks - as said before in this topic that alot depends on the gear of that of the average party member and by that I really mean to say that the biggest boost for an average party comes from TK..

old situation for defensive tanks there wasn't that much difference besides maybe a slight preference for PK cause of the better pdef effect but as per Salvation update elemental pdef has become way more important then pdef as such and the new TK aura gives both, add on top of that the stronger disable skills a TK has now it has made TK the obvious winner from the defensive tanks perspective.. in PVP this is even more so nowadays..

so let's recap:

• old days in general all 4 tanks were good options with an unbalance on HK side from PVE perspective in particular when having stacked gear but this was countered by them being the worst PVP tank
• new days offensive tank set up as we knew it is dead and with the changes to mobs defensive tanks are just the better choice for 90% of all parties out there of which the TK is both king on PVE & PVP 

I hope this clarifies my earlier post a bit better as in all the previous updates we never had this much push into 1 specific tank as in those days there were really clear trades offs one had to make between PVE vs PVP

now on a personal level - to be very clear here I still can do AF solo on tank but not in my old S80 set anymore nope.. now you know why I went and upgraded my armor to a +12/13 set.. there's just no versatility behind it anymore like it used to be and like back in the days when SwM was turned into ISS it's forcing a certain change in play style that I don't like so I switched to the class with most comparable play style - this is ofc from my point of view - so I changed my old 101 dual class a few times and after lots of testing stayed with Tyrant which I xped to 105 in like 3 Months.. ah yes I do leave town, surprise!

[Rodah]

13 hours ago, Draecke said:

ofc I see the irony.. saw it coming long time ago as Irlumir knows but let's stick to the old situation vs new for a bit here

dps style tanks in old were SK/HK where HK had huge boost from it's aura which could be boosted with the right gear set up but still any tank could do the same upto the point of the aura effect which was 40% pcrit damage boost. Now note that the old True Vanguard was 1. stronger in DPS as it added 60% damage to PVE 2. did NOT block shield passives/active skills - the latter is obviously removed from the new True Vanguard and that is what really makes the difference

 

This is simply untrue.  You know my gear; its not "end game" but it is well above average.  I was "cruising" at 32k P.Attack with just Iss buffs/Rose/turtle when I was 103 HK.  With PoM I could duo Kama with a live Iss in 15-20 minutes.  When I switched to TK and changed absolutely nothing else my P.Attack dropped to 20k (roughly) and it took me 5+ minutes to kill the first boss in k99...... 

My point is pretty simply; the disparity between tanks now is less than it was in the previous patch

[Draecke]

On 1/11/2018 at 7:22 PM, Rodah said:

This is simply untrue.  You know my gear; its not "end game" but it is well above average.  I was "cruising" at 32k P.Attack with just Iss buffs/Rose/turtle when I was 103 HK.  With PoM I could duo Kama with a live Iss in 15-20 minutes.  When I switched to TK and changed absolutely nothing else my P.Attack dropped to 20k (roughly) and it took me 5+ minutes to kill the first boss in k99...... 

My point is pretty simply; the disparity between tanks now is less than it was in the previous patch

well u did move from a offensive tank type to a defensive so fair enough that would have alil more impact as such and let's agree to disagree on the current tank stuff as imo I talked enough on that already

[Irlumir]

En

On 10-01-2018 at 11:30 AM, Murkan said:

Good Afternoon (Using Google Translate)

I have an Eva's Templar. When I read the Patch Note, I even thought about it, this time it will, when they mention that the tank was better, and then when we play, no, they got worse. It improved in part in PVE, because Eva's Templar of all tank is the best for this, because it has several skills to pull the mob and this helps a lot, but it got worse, because Tank's damage to PVE got smaller, because it removed the TRUE VANGUARD that gave 60% more in PVE, and consumed 30% more of MP, but substituted with this ability that uses the sword with both hands, increases the damage, but forces the tank to be in a bad position, he simply loses defensive ability and starts to take more damage as his shield skills are deactivated. Sincerely, NCsoft has used this style of play in the past, then changed and back again with it, she thinks that's a maximum, but it's a stance that does not help much, especially when the Healer is not effective at healing, or is not good at what it does, this new stance makes the Tank look like a Tyrr, but made worse. The biggest problem I noticed was that in PVP Tank got weaker, takes more damage, defends less the shield, at least that's what I noticed. In the same Olympics, it is where we realized if the change was good or not, I realized that the Tank simply with the new skills, which are skills that impose too many restrictions, ends up being useless. Example:

 

1 - Final Ultimate Defense: A skill that makes it clear that the maximum damage received is 600, but it depends on your P.Defesa, a skill that continues with 15-minute reuse, because for NCsoft it is a very powerful and precise skill having this reuse, to me, powerful is the Marks of the Summoners that when we received the 4 Marks, we ran out of HP in less than 10 seconds. The worst, put a restriction, ie for you to have this reduction to 600, will depend on your P.Defesa, but at the beginning of the description of the skill, already deceives the player, saying that the maximum damage received is 600. Worse, the skill blocks the use of Reise Shield / Focus Shield, so Final Ultimate Defense, which has nothing of the last defense, has become a rough skill.

2 - Reise Shield / Focus Shield: Interesting, but I noticed that Focus Shield really complies with what the description says, that is, when using it, I do not receive magic criticism, just normal wizard damage, but Reise Shield , the description says something, which does not match, as the damages remain high of the physical DDs. Worst of all, if we use another skill that needs a shield, the effect of these two skills will go away.

3 - Justice Punishment / Vanishing Stun: Formerly it was a skill that had a chance to give silence to magic skill. Today it has changed, it has the effect of reducing by 20% casting speed and atack speed, the more interesting it now makes it clear that it has the chance of silence, either in physical or magic skill for 3 seconds, before it was 4 seconds. The most interesting of this skill, is that her silence takes a little Wizard class, like Healer and Feoh, but it takes the Warriors so easily. The worst is that it should be the other way round, since the Tank hits weak, and the damage done by the Wizard, this includes the Healers are too high, so it's a Tank protection, and it looks like mine is + 10% chance, but even in Feoh lvl low, and especially in Healer, since he fails more in Healer, then it is a skill that does not prove an effective aid as well. in my opinion have to diminish the Wizard's resistance to this type of debuff, to balance things...

 

4 - Shield Wave: I liked this skill, but I complained of the bug, that when the skill is active, it has a lag or lock, especially when fighting another tank, and it hinders the use of other skills, it is another skill that my God, if we use another shield skill, the effect will disappear.

 

Summarizing everything: Tank this garbage for PVP solo. Man, when I go to the Olympics, I could fight well against Feoh, but after Feoh gained this ability, he was active that reduced damage by 95%, and the remaining 5% consumed MP, Tank lost a chance to defeat Feoh, because as it causes little damage, then it will never consume the MP, and since Feoh is extremely resistant to silence, then it got bad, and the worst of it all is that Feoh is a class that damages too high, until Feoh nothing equipped comes to cause 20k of critical magic, this is the weakest and as the tank lost the 100% refletc of Final Ultimate Defense, which helped to burn the MP, and lost the Party Rescue, which changed its name and is now a silly skill, which only increases 50% of P.Defesa / M.Defesa, lasts a little and protects 50% against archer, I find it silly. I also noticed that Tank is taking the Mark of the Summoners easier, and like the Eva's Templar cubes, which improved the healing of the MP only, and has a longer delay, you have no more defense. I've already fought with several Summoners, we used to have a better chance Cubico was more effective in every way, because he healed and debuffed at the same time, not now, a cure and remove debuff, but it has a delay of 10 seconds, the other of buff that leaves you immune to debuff and some bonus that does not help at all, the buff lasts 7 seconds, the reuse of the cube's skill is 15 seconds, I also noticed that even with this protection of 7 seconds, I am debuffing the which should not occur, as the description makes clear: Immune to debuff.

 

The biggest mistake of NCsoft is to make changes in the class and not observe the scenario of the game. They create skill for a certain class, but do not see if this skill will unbalance the game, which it does. When they perfected the Feoh skill so that instead of giving a buff that lasts a few seconds, it turned into an active skill, which absorbs 95% damage, and the 5% consume is MP, NCsoft did this so that Feoh could fight longer and have a better chance against the Daggers and the Archers, but this change made him superior to the other class, like Tank, Iss, etc, because even if we try to win in time, the added damage will be low. That's if we're alive for this, since Feoh's damage is extremely high. That annoys NCsoft, and then it arrives and says that the skill will consume 50 MP per second while it is active, ours, as if that would drain the MP of Feoh that is high. With Feoh's high damage, he will already have won the enemy. 

 

I think NCsoft when it comes to make a change, it has to observe all class, type: If it is to change this ability to resist certain class, it has to see if this ability will not harm other class, making it very strong and impossible for another class to win. I noticed that this change in the Tank, made it weak, even weaker against Feoh, Summoner, Healer, mainly because these class have a lot of debuff, even against Iss, because they are class that fight very liberating Debuff, the Summoner, our, a class that lvl 101 has pets that give high damage, have HP too high, deals damage with summons, effective delay of the cubics is not helping much. Because it is slowly removing the debuffs, and the immunity that the description says, is not happening, because in 3 seconds that was lacking to finish the protection of the cubic, I took 4 Marks of the summoner. Ally, these Marks of the Summoner is absurd that until today I do not understand the reason to exist. It's time for NCsoft to reevaluate all the class, it has to make the Summoner powerful yes, just need NCsoft, but the Summoner today is a magician with two Pets, as you can see that Summoner only uses the Pets for distraction, Marks, to me, these Marks should not all burn HP, bleep, you get 4 Marks of this, when you go to look, your whole CP and half of your HP is already gone at an incredible speed, and Tank that had the most efficient cubes earlier , is taking an easy beating because the Summoner is also more resistant to the new silence, Vanshing Stun simply fails very much in silence against the Wizard and I think this should not happen. 

In my opinion, tank should of course be resistant to debuff, return debuff more easily than any other class, not only 10% like this in the passive skill, since all class is 10%, formerly all tank returned 30% magic debuff and 30% physical debuff were humans. I noticed that a Healer returns a lot more debuff than the tank, just see a tank and healer fight, you will see that the tank receives the debuff itself, much more than a healer.

I hope that NCsoft modifies all class, and I hope that these class also have restrictions on the skill as the tank is having, since most tank skills are full of restrictions, if using such skill, can not use shield skill, if using Focus shield, can not use other shield skills, if using Final Ultimate Defense, can not use Focus Shield / Reise Shield, if using Shield Wave, can not use another shield skill. This limits the power of the tank, meanwhile, the other class can use their skill fully, having gigantic advantages.

First you dont understand english very well, cause F. UD skill says it reduce damage according to your pdef until cap, the cap number says the minimum amount of damage you will recive... So cap is the other way around..

For all your complain, honestly i don't know if you have bad gear or want to beat ppl that overgear you a lot, because in my case, ppl i see with similar gear i have a good time in oly winning most matches, loosing against heroes and whales ( as usual)  but now i am able to beat ppl that overgear me by playing smart and some luck or beat other classes that where a lot harder before like iss or healer.  Tyr are a lot easier now,othel also. I see a very balanced class. On small scale pvp tank is also crucial, with only aoe aggro is enough, not to mention pulling wich do land ( maelstrom land very good) and raising smash can be enough for a good dd to drop easy enemies. Also aoe root land. Stun land very good and if not lands the phys silence it now have. The buggy shield wave, if indeed work like that, is a smashing machine against reflect. Raise / focus shield are very nice skill, with. Really short cooldown,  that can help you to minimize dds activation or closing distance with nukers ( archer,  feoh etc). Is a lot funnier and stronger, has more tools now in both pvp/ pve rather than activate some ud or noble sacrifice..... Check your setting,.... maybe something is not good there. Also mages has more men than fighters, silence is a mental attack, sooo gues what you need to boost it........

[Murkan]

On 13/01/2018 at 12:08 PM, Irlumir said:

En

First you dont understand english very well, cause F. UD skill says it reduce damage according to your pdef until cap, the cap number says the minimum amount of damage you will recive... So cap is the other way around..

For all your complain, honestly i don't know if you have bad gear or want to beat ppl that overgear you a lot, because in my case, ppl i see with similar gear i have a good time in oly winning most matches, loosing against heroes and whales ( as usual)  but now i am able to beat ppl that overgear me by playing smart and some luck or beat other classes that where a lot harder before like iss or healer.  Tyr are a lot easier now,othel also. I see a very balanced class. On small scale pvp tank is also crucial, with only aoe aggro is enough, not to mention pulling wich do land ( maelstrom land very good) and raising smash can be enough for a good dd to drop easy enemies. Also aoe root land. Stun land very good and if not lands the phys silence it now have. The buggy shield wave, if indeed work like that, is a smashing machine against reflect. Raise / focus shield are very nice skill, with. Really short cooldown,  that can help you to minimize dds activation or closing distance with nukers ( archer,  feoh etc). Is a lot funnier and stronger, has more tools now in both pvp/ pve rather than activate some ud or noble sacrifice..... Check your setting,.... maybe something is not good there. Also mages has more men than fighters, silence is a mental attack, sooo gues what you need to boost it........

Good evening...

I understood very well how Final Ultimate Defense works now, but I'd rather have them change the name, because what it does now does not deserve to be called the ultimate defense. About Focus Shield and Reise Shield, frankly, I have not seen anything too much, have short time has but not helped or contributed, just the Focus Shield I saw, some relevance in her work and even then, are two skills that leave you with hands tied, because you can not use all the time it stays, because you want or do not want to, if we use another shield skill, deactivates the effect of it. And remember, Final Ultimate Defense also blocks you, does not allow you to activate the buff that the Shield Wave gives you, you use the skill, but the Shield Wave buff gives you, it does not appear, so it's not just Reise Shield and the Focus Shield, and honestly, Final Ultimate Defense leaves you weak in defense as it gives you a bad impression that you can handle the damage more. Shield Wave is another skill that when used, gives a buff that is giving constant damage to the enemy, however, if you use any other skill that uses shield, the effect of it will disappear. Before the upgrade, I always fought summoners in the Olympics, and it was much easier, as Mark's debuffs took less, in this new update, I noticed that the Marks debuffs get a lot easier, it seems like they've left the tanks vulnerable to debuffs or simply increased the odds ratio of wizards debuffs. About silence, sorry, it did fine in blocking magic and physical skills, but I noticed that even my + 10% enchantment for chance, it easily grabs against warrior characters, be it Tyrr, Othell, Archer, etc. much in Feoh, Summoner and especially Healer. And we all know that wizads do more damage than warrior, because a critical demage of a Tyrr, Archer, and Othel depends heavily on the skill, while a magical critical of a Feoh, Summoner, and even Healer is highly high. I just think, that this NCsoft craze in making changes in each class is time consuming, it would be much better to change all at once, than to do this gradually. Just think that limiting tank skills is a mistake, because it limits the tank in its defense, we can no longer do combo to protect, something that a Feoh can activate several skills of them, and as they give high critics, a weak Feoh can give critics 20 to 30 thousand magic damage. Previously we could fight all UDs, now, if we use that of Reise Shield, we are forbidden to use other skills. But, I hope that the changes of other class, this also happens, to have several skills that have prohibitions as it happens with the Tank.

[KeepthePeace]

Hell Knight Power!!!

 

https://ibb.co/h2Y1e6

[__SpOO__]

You wanted to say big fat wallet power I think. Such a big achievement, not.

[Keoz]

16 hours ago, KeepthePeace said:

Hell Knight Power!!!

 

https://ibb.co/h2Y1e6

With True Vanguard and Knight Harmony (Lv.2 better), you'd have reached more P.Atk and Dmg *sigh*

[Murkan]

What NCsoft had to do is:

1 - Stop changing the classes individually, that is, make changes, do all at once, even if it takes time. Since this update left the Sigel very bad to fight, most of the skills we can not do combo, that is, activate several skills at the same time to have a chance, and the other class can, and this is a huge advantage, now the new Sigel is so he used this skill, can not use another, if he uses, the other cancel.
2 - In all MMORPG the tank is the class that has the highest P.Defesa, HP, M.Defesa and resistance of the game, however, which has the smaller P.Atack and the less damage, however its defense, HP help he in this, in Lineage 2, he does not have the highest P.Defesa, does not have the highest HP, does not have the largest M.Defesa, and does not have the greatest resistance, and of the smallest damage, is the class with the greatest need of skill to survive than any other class.

3 - And finally, NCsoft needs to review the route of the damage verses the route of the defense, as it does not have as a Sigel to fight against a class like Feoh, which is not well equipped can give magic critical of 20 thousand damage, this a Feoh badly equipped, and Sigel on the same level of equipment, can barely have 60 thousand HP.

[Irlumir]

9 hours ago, Murkan said:

What NCsoft had to do is:

1 - Stop changing the classes individually, that is, make changes, do all at once, even if it takes time. Since this update left the Sigel very bad to fight, most of the skills we can not do combo, that is, activate several skills at the same time to have a chance, and the other class can, and this is a huge advantage, now the new Sigel is so he used this skill, can not use another, if he uses, the other cancel.
2 - In all MMORPG the tank is the class that has the highest P.Defesa, HP, M.Defesa and resistance of the game, however, which has the smaller P.Atack and the less damage, however its defense, HP help he in this, in Lineage 2, he does not have the highest P.Defesa, does not have the highest HP, does not have the largest M.Defesa, and does not have the greatest resistance, and of the smallest damage, is the class with the greatest need of skill to survive than any other class.

3 - And finally, NCsoft needs to review the route of the damage verses the route of the defense, as it does not have as a Sigel to fight against a class like Feoh, which is not well equipped can give magic critical of 20 thousand damage, this a Feoh badly equipped, and Sigel on the same level of equipment, can barely have 60 thousand HP.

You mean 60k hp in oly ? is not that high btw.... can have more.

BTW with same gear Tank have more pdef, more mdef (with activation ) and more HP than all other classes. No class, regardless gear, can reach 50k pdef or more, and a mid range geared tank reach that amount of pdef and keep it almost all time. 
The think on pvp is indeed some mixed, you need to have your skills with high overenchant to land properly outside oly. That mainly due mental attack resistance  that provide huge debuff resistance(+30)

So without the single target noble sacrifice, that some do not liked, the class get strip away of a nice tool on mass pvp. But in oly Tank is strong, on pve Tank is a must have, stronger and useful (mainly for his root :D) . Mass pvp, well, in mass pvp your enjoyment is related to your credit card, and there are more boost for damage dealer classes related to credit card... so , yea maybe there is not that good as it could be. Belive me with the remove of some debuff resistance, tank will be awesome in pvp... or some ways to improve further the debuff landing rate of tank skills, like agression and pulling. still not find a pulling boost.......

Why you complain that much? mass pvp, like burncycle pointed is so so, i for sure time to time feel the need of the old noble sacrifice, but i know i need to boost the enchant of my debuff closer to +20 and see.  in other areas tank is fine, pve and oly. For sure mages are overpower but l2 always have a ruling class season. Always. To encourage big whalres to change their chars on libras or to lvl up in mather of hours chars to high lvl with all boost available. There are ppl that do it

[Murkan]

22 hours ago, Irlumir said:

You mean 60k hp in oly ? is not that high btw.... can have more.

BTW with same gear Tank have more pdef, more mdef (with activation ) and more HP than all other classes. No class, regardless gear, can reach 50k pdef or more, and a mid range geared tank reach that amount of pdef and keep it almost all time. 
The think on pvp is indeed some mixed, you need to have your skills with high overenchant to land properly outside oly. That mainly due mental attack resistance  that provide huge debuff resistance(+30)

So without the single target noble sacrifice, that some do not liked, the class get strip away of a nice tool on mass pvp. But in oly Tank is strong, on pve Tank is a must have, stronger and useful (mainly for his root :D) . Mass pvp, well, in mass pvp your enjoyment is related to your credit card, and there are more boost for damage dealer classes related to credit card... so , yea maybe there is not that good as it could be. Belive me with the remove of some debuff resistance, tank will be awesome in pvp... or some ways to improve further the debuff landing rate of tank skills, like agression and pulling. still not find a pulling boost.......

Why you complain that much? mass pvp, like burncycle pointed is so so, i for sure time to time feel the need of the old noble sacrifice, but i know i need to boost the enchant of my debuff closer to +20 and see.  in other areas tank is fine, pve and oly. For sure mages are overpower but l2 always have a ruling class season. Always. To encourage big whalres to change their chars on libras or to lvl up in mather of hours chars to high lvl with all boost available. There are ppl that do it

For the love of God. Sigel arriving at 50 K from P.defesa where? One, I understand, you base players who have access to all sorts of game items. But a Sigel never reaches 50K from P.Defesa, could do that using the old UDs, these UDs are rubbish, weak, no good. I do in observations, Sigel this rubbish, you do not admit it because your main class is not even this. You should analyze things using as optics your clan, your equipment, I already analyze using as optics characters with the same level of equipment. And it's not just Feoh that hits a Sigel Knight easily, Summoner knocks, any other class hits. The skills are contradictory, and if you think it's better, there's a problem you find this, but what I notice is that after the upgrade, several players tested the class, and several players abandoned the class. And about NCsoft in making dominant class for a period, it's hers, so Lineage 2 in its glory no longer poses a threat to other competing games, and so Blizzard has millions of players paying monthly and spending with the game , because Blizzard is fast, it knows how to interfere when one class was exaggerated in view of others. NCsoft does not know how to balance anything, but you will not admit that... Ncsoft simply spoiled the Sigel, created a lot of bad skills, which is no good, Reise Shield is bad, loads fast, but it sucks, it increases 100% of P.Defesa and with a reflection of 10% which is useless . NCsoft spoiled the game too from the moment it created many items that only benefit the DDs and deny that is the biggest mistake, my God, Reise Shield and Focus Shield of 10% Reflect, my God, what absurd and powerful thing huh? And then we remember that NCsoft itself has created so many, many and many items that it simply decreases the received reflection, and has items that the guy even decreases much more than 10%. And here comes to tell me that Sigel easily arrives in 50K of P.Defesa, no, not enough, he arrived before, before with the old UDs, but no armor for more that puts +10 of code will give to Sigel 50K of P.Defesa , none, and there replaces a UD that the maximum damage was 100 and reflected 100% of the damage taken, for a ridiculous UD that limits the damage to 650, but to limit this, it depends on your P.Defesa, and Ncsoft poor thing, he thinks the skill is so powerful, he kept the reuse in 15 minutes. And we remember the fabulous Party Rescue that also limited the damage and reflected 90% of the damage received, and then it comes and gives us a wicked skill called Nine Aegis that increases P.Defesa by 50% and protects 50% against Bow, and reflects 25% of M.Atack, and in the end, this skill is not for PVP, only serves for PVE and look there, because it only increases P.Defesa, not for magicians.But, it is not only me complaining, access other forms, but it is only you who thought that Sigel was good, with his abilities covered. Skills that if you use, you can not use another, because it cancels the skills you were using, making the Sigel PVP annoying, as Sigel besides worrying about the time of the skills, now has to be worried how to use the skills , because inevitably, Sigel must use his skills to excel. But then remember that if you use Reise Shield and Focus Shield, which only increases 100% of P.Defesa and M.defesa and this increase does not mean anything, as DD damage is increasingly absurd in the game, and when using these skills, ready, can not use another shield skill, if stun, ready, loses the effect of Reise Shield and Focus Shield, and if you use these two skills and use Shield Wave, the Shield Wave buff is not added, ridiculous it , is a limitation, a limitation that DDs do not have, since DDs can enjoy all their skills and even do combo with them. And to finish I noticed that the silece fails much more, a skill of extreme importance fails a lot, and puts a lot in Wizard, like Feoh, and it looks that my skill is stranded for more + 10% of chance, before it got much easier today , the skill fails a lot, and it looks like I have jewels that increase even more mental atacks, since silence is a mental atack, increases by 40%. But the skill takes easy against Warrior, which is the contradiction of NCsoft, the skill has to be more effective with classes that apply much higher damage, such as Wizard in general, like Feoh, and worse, in the description of the talking skill that the debuff of silence is 3 seconds, lie, because I have been testing the skill, when it takes, and look what takes, I fought against a Summoner lvl 97, and the silence took a maximum of 4 times, and I applied 20 times the skill , get 4 times, and it does not have Boss jewelry, and when picked up, the debuff was 1 seconds, sometimes when it picks up, it's 2 seconds, it's rare to stay 3 seconds as NCsoft says, and let's face it, 3 seconds of silence is little. Because I think it's funny that the Feoh debuffs that removes our M.Defesa is simply more than 10 seconds, so that Feoh apply high damage, since Feoh's damage is high, and the Sigel's silencer lasts for 3 seconds, as if 3 Sigel was going to do a high damage on Feoh, that is, a skill without any use, I do not know why it exists, if it does not work. While a medium-sized Feoh with no Boss gems can apply 20K of damage on a Sigel, a Sigel can further take 1K from Feoh's demage, and hey, Feoh and the other DDs release them very easily, and alas, the Sigel skills are the ones that last a short time, but Sigel's silence should at least be much longer than 3 seconds, since he does not do any damage like that.

[Irlumir]

17 hours ago, Murkan said:

For the love of God. Sigel arriving at 50 K from P.defesa where? One, I understand, you base players who have access to all sorts of game items. But a Sigel never reaches 50K from P.Defesa, could do that using the old UDs, these UDs are rubbish, weak, no good. I do in observations, Sigel this rubbish, you do not admit it because your main class is not even this. You should analyze things using as optics your clan, your equipment, I already analyze using as optics characters with the same level of equipment. And it's not just Feoh that hits a Sigel Knight easily, Summoner knocks, any other class hits. The skills are contradictory, and if you think it's better, there's a problem you find this, but what I notice is that after the upgrade, several players tested the class, and several players abandoned the class. And about NCsoft in making dominant class for a period, it's hers, so Lineage 2 in its glory no longer poses a threat to other competing games, and so Blizzard has millions of players paying monthly and spending with the game , because Blizzard is fast, it knows how to interfere when one class was exaggerated in view of others. NCsoft does not know how to balance anything, but you will not admit that... Ncsoft simply spoiled the Sigel, created a lot of bad skills, which is no good, Reise Shield is bad, loads fast, but it sucks, it increases 100% of P.Defesa and with a reflection of 10% which is useless . NCsoft spoiled the game too from the moment it created many items that only benefit the DDs and deny that is the biggest mistake, my God, Reise Shield and Focus Shield of 10% Reflect, my God, what absurd and powerful thing huh? And then we remember that NCsoft itself has created so many, many and many items that it simply decreases the received reflection, and has items that the guy even decreases much more than 10%. And here comes to tell me that Sigel easily arrives in 50K of P.Defesa, no, not enough, he arrived before, before with the old UDs, but no armor for more that puts +10 of code will give to Sigel 50K of P.Defesa , none, and there replaces a UD that the maximum damage was 100 and reflected 100% of the damage taken, for a ridiculous UD that limits the damage to 650, but to limit this, it depends on your P.Defesa, and Ncsoft poor thing, he thinks the skill is so powerful, he kept the reuse in 15 minutes. And we remember the fabulous Party Rescue that also limited the damage and reflected 90% of the damage received, and then it comes and gives us a wicked skill called Nine Aegis that increases P.Defesa by 50% and protects 50% against Bow, and reflects 25% of M.Atack, and in the end, this skill is not for PVP, only serves for PVE and look there, because it only increases P.Defesa, not for magicians.But, it is not only me complaining, access other forms, but it is only you who thought that Sigel was good, with his abilities covered. Skills that if you use, you can not use another, because it cancels the skills you were using, making the Sigel PVP annoying, as Sigel besides worrying about the time of the skills, now has to be worried how to use the skills , because inevitably, Sigel must use his skills to excel. But then remember that if you use Reise Shield and Focus Shield, which only increases 100% of P.Defesa and M.defesa and this increase does not mean anything, as DD damage is increasingly absurd in the game, and when using these skills, ready, can not use another shield skill, if stun, ready, loses the effect of Reise Shield and Focus Shield, and if you use these two skills and use Shield Wave, the Shield Wave buff is not added, ridiculous it , is a limitation, a limitation that DDs do not have, since DDs can enjoy all their skills and even do combo with them. And to finish I noticed that the silece fails much more, a skill of extreme importance fails a lot, and puts a lot in Wizard, like Feoh, and it looks that my skill is stranded for more + 10% of chance, before it got much easier today , the skill fails a lot, and it looks like I have jewels that increase even more mental atacks, since silence is a mental atack, increases by 40%. But the skill takes easy against Warrior, which is the contradiction of NCsoft, the skill has to be more effective with classes that apply much higher damage, such as Wizard in general, like Feoh, and worse, in the description of the talking skill that the debuff of silence is 3 seconds, lie, because I have been testing the skill, when it takes, and look what takes, I fought against a Summoner lvl 97, and the silence took a maximum of 4 times, and I applied 20 times the skill , get 4 times, and it does not have Boss jewelry, and when picked up, the debuff was 1 seconds, sometimes when it picks up, it's 2 seconds, it's rare to stay 3 seconds as NCsoft says, and let's face it, 3 seconds of silence is little. Because I think it's funny that the Feoh debuffs that removes our M.Defesa is simply more than 10 seconds, so that Feoh apply high damage, since Feoh's damage is high, and the Sigel's silencer lasts for 3 seconds, as if 3 Sigel was going to do a high damage on Feoh, that is, a skill without any use, I do not know why it exists, if it does not work. While a medium-sized Feoh with no Boss gems can apply 20K of damage on a Sigel, a Sigel can further take 1K from Feoh's demage, and hey, Feoh and the other DDs release them very easily, and alas, the Sigel skills are the ones that last a short time, but Sigel's silence should at least be much longer than 3 seconds, since he does not do any damage like that.

https://imgur.com/Br00iMu --> 55k pdef with normal buffs ( iss+ rose)  + raise shield . I have raise shield +12 can keep it up almost all time when tanking pve, have cooldown of 39 sec and grand fortress cut its cooldown when i have 2 sec left.  I have mid gear, nothing fancy, golden armor... so average... ( This with attack type on armor set, mainly because of dual, and no stew, WIth +3 con stew and defence type set HP is around 144k .)

In pvp is nice when aoe agro and enemies hit you, but most of the time, on aoe situation, you will be bosting mdef. Mele damage is not much besides some stacked archers for sure. 

https://imgur.com/iZl6D54 --> 54k mdef with buffs + frenzy + focus shield. you can save yourself on siege like that, besdies will not recive m crt damage. Just have to overenchant skill to +10 or better and wait for grand fortress to hit lvl 5 your activation last a lot longer (25% more). 

Like Keoz says there are 3 skills that remove raise/focus.. shield charge, shield bash and boomerang, the only one that really matters on mass pvp is boomerang. For sure in mass pvp, like i say and some ppl says there is a lack of proper function not because tank lack defence but for landing rates., The skills are nice but with full buff and gear players resist debuff a lot.  In oly is a lot different, no sonatas, les debuff resistance, proper landing rates. IF you find some heroes or ppl that overgear you ofcourse you will have a bad time, or more lvl than you, but if not tank is ok.  
Will be nice to see what is your stats lvl and settings. 

With +10 armor you get a lot better stats. You can combo focus + nine aegis and reach 100k pdef or more with top gear. 

Here is another pic buffed with COV  https://imgur.com/YnQZnYv  64.298 pdef with raise shield on, (i almost 95% of the time with that thing on when tanking) on an altar random party. 150k hp only with divine elixir ( yea i use that, is cheaper than rose XD)

To all perspective im an average geared tank. So stop writting bullshit dude  and learn how to properly setup your tank.

You complain about reflect damage? well the tank that have it now is HK. The others have their own things, Tanks classes have their differences, HK is reflect, evas pulls and self healing, ST some extra debuff and some pulling, phoenix aggresions ..... 
 

 

And if you see the pic posted by Keepthepeace https://ibb.co/h2Y1e6  wich have a lot more gear than i have his stat are very high, pdef without focus and with warrior of 30k, and most probably with a  setup like a tyr, pve damage oriented. He will reach easy with only knight and setting as tank over 40k pdef no shield buff on, with raise double that .......  

Again, what setup , lvl , gear your char have to think the class is so bad?

 

 

 

[meatbun]

For HK- is it still worth keeping Shield Deflect Magic (DA skill)?

[Draecke]

33 minutes ago, meatbun said:

For HK- is it still worth keeping Shield Deflect Magic (DA skill)?

reflect damage is of limited use these days and if you don't do Oly then I doubt it's worth keeping imo..

[Irlumir]

On 23-01-2018 at 5:48 PM, Murkan said:

Bla bla bla

Well dude i show you what i told, pdef over 50k no UDs on, my main is indeed a Tank 103. I love the changes in the class,  found it fun to play with,  you get tired sometimes, because is more intense, but have a lot to do on aoe farming, how yoy play is very important and add a lot to team.

What happend with your blabla?   Learn how to play, gear, and setup your char. 

Well most of the blabla was very hard to understand,  but do not tell me i do not know what iam talking about and you do, because here is the other way around.....

What is your native language?...