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Karma system encourages griefing


KBups
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Hey guys,

Just to get this out of the way, I played on launch in 2003. Don't gimme the carebear lines cause I've lived in the shit for years.

The stream I watched about the release of classic servers said they removed item drop because they wanted to "not promote griefing." That line alone is what made me join up.

Come to find out they mean items drop on 4 pk's. With the current system disabling item drops on death as white or purple, but allowing item drops on red enables anyone to attack other players monsters and leech experience.

Players all the time will literally say "Then kill me" because they know it's FAR worse to go red than it is to accept harassment. I've lived through horror stories of the real classic L2 where people were tricked into going red and lost everything then quit. If you're really trying to promote a game without griefing, remove item drop completely.

 

Make whites hitting reds go purple, or remove item drop on red. Anything else will promote players stealing each others mobs for free.

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5 minutes ago, Tzeo said:

But if the pk does not drop anything on death, no one will bother to kill them. They will just xp happily until they go white.

Yes. That's the ideal scenario. 

The alternative is what's happening right now where players have to dance around attacking someone to show them "they mean business."

But don't hit them TOO hard cause if you do kill them on your initial "warning shot" you go red and YOU'RE the one punished.

So players can just go attack anyone's mobs all day for free with no fear of repercussions. Take off all your gear, (or just your jewelry if you're harassing a wizard) and leech experience all day for free. Even better if you can maintain low HP at all times. When they shoot you to try and make you stop, they might accidentally kill you and now you've ruined their life. Does this sound fun?

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That's not the issue, issue is that karma is being penalised too hard. You need to kill like 1000 mobs to clear your karma. Initial idea of karma is fine, do not kill other players if they do not want to pvp with you. But with that hard of the penalty it enables randoms to leech of your mobs or just push you out of the farming spot, because you cannot kill them (or at  least die trying). Same goes for bots, you just need to move to other farming spot, because they do not give a single .... and you cannot kill them, because you are the one being penalised, not grievers or bots.

In general, karma does no good and majority of the time penalises players who are just trying to get by.

If you karma could be cleared in some 5-10mobs, that would be an amazing system and would reduce botting and grieving. 

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48 minutes ago, KBups said:

Hey guys,

Just to get this out of the way, I played on launch in 2003. Don't gimme the carebear lines cause I've lived in the shit for years.

The stream I watched about the release of classic servers said they removed item drop because they wanted to "not promote griefing." That line alone is what made me join up.

Come to find out they mean items drop on 4 pk's. With the current system disabling item drops on death as white or purple, but allowing item drops on red enables anyone to attack other players monsters and leech experience.

Players all the time will literally say "Then kill me" because they know it's FAR worse to go red than it is to accept harassment. I've lived through horror stories of the real classic L2 where people were tricked into going red and lost everything then quit. If you're really trying to promote a game without griefing, remove item drop completely.

 

Make whites hitting reds go purple, or remove item drop on red. Anything else will promote players stealing each others mobs for free.

lal, playing since 2005 and QQ for KS?This is not griefing, it's kill stealing and your only option is to PK if you don't like it.Also, fyi you can't drop, you get a random item destroyed in from your inventory.

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on my 3rd PK . i needed  to kill 2200 mobs under ivory tower to clean it .  GL 


make PK system somehow logical guys . the item destruction is OK imo. atleast there is a penalty .  or make it both drop and delete, so ppl still go hunt PKers.    but the current clearing speed is insane.    ppl can grief u and u cant do anything cuz u have to die like 4-5 times to clean it or kill mobs for 6-7h.  ok 

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the system is fine as it is. it was worse in the past, with logged out high level characters and very good equipment to protect bots spots when others came to take it, and the pker washed away their karma in 10 minutes.

the new system is fine because you will eventually join a clan, declare wars and what not. most of the fight for spots will be clan against clan not solo players vs solo players. solo players don't really have that many spots at end game because most mobs at end game are hard. join a clan, go with others and hunt mobs, this is how this game is supposed to be played. being in  a party kinda solves the problem of ks itself.

this is a problem now but over time players will get higher level and outgrow these low level crowded spots and the population will stabilize.

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AoE skills of any kind should hit purple named players if they're in the range of the cast so that I don't simply spam spoil festival or flame strikes for free knowing that is actually worse for them to kill me, AoE should have downsides, when there is no risk it's not fun for anyone, if I wanna steal from someone I must be prepared they have tools to deal with it (or not), "just stunlock bro" is a really bad argument against ks griefing. And people, please stop using the word "carebear" too much, improvements regarding the design of the game shouldn't be seen as "carebear", because it's aiming to bring positives overall for everyone, there must risks and not stupid risks, I wanna punish players or get punished in interesting and viable ways, I don't wanna get dc'ed and lose a weapon that takes over one month to craft, it's just idiotic. Most people currently don't even PvP because the risk of losing 4% is actually heavy, now you die 2 times and you'll feel it in your bones, it's a good enough way to put a good risk on the line, it doesn't have to be cheesy, it just has to meaningful and it is.

Edited by Gazob1
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There should still be a penalty for PKing but I agree with the majority of ppl that the karma for so little PKs seems to be quite drastic. Haven't PK'd yet myself but such a penalty will make me think twice before attempting to, when previously (when the game first launched) I never used to give it a second thought.

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the penalty for 1 pk is like 200 karma, which takes 200 mobs to remove since 1 mob = 1 karma.

thats a pretty annoying penalty fo 15 seconds of stickin it to someone,

 

however, the OP is talking about KSing, and either fight back or move or deal with it. there are no safe places that give out paperclips in linegae 2 xp grounds (kartia exluded which isnt in this version)

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18 hours ago, KBups said:

Hey guys,

Just to get this out of the way, I played on launch in 2003. Don't gimme the carebear lines cause I've lived in the shit for years.

The stream I watched about the release of classic servers said they removed item drop because they wanted to "not promote griefing." That line alone is what made me join up.

Come to find out they mean items drop on 4 pk's. With the current system disabling item drops on death as white or purple, but allowing item drops on red enables anyone to attack other players monsters and leech experience.

Players all the time will literally say "Then kill me" because they know it's FAR worse to go red than it is to accept harassment. I've lived through horror stories of the real classic L2 where people were tricked into going red and lost everything then quit. If you're really trying to promote a game without griefing, remove item drop completely.

 

Make whites hitting reds go purple, or remove item drop on red. Anything else will promote players stealing each others mobs for free.

PK is punished because PKs are the griefers.

https://youtu.be/lbOtyWTRZ_g?t=1

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Make special PK characters ( with full buff and high level chars to train they're easy to exp ) OR defend your spot by having better damage than people who are harassing you. Can't outdamage the competition? Can't make it not worth it for them in some other creative way? Maybe you suck and don't deserve the spot in the first place.

Edited by IAmTheOneWhoKnocks
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