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Offline Shop Why Not?

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Venu    0
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If all you could say against the offline shops/fishing is - it is too hard to be implemented, better say nothing.

How is that different than you saying increasing server capacity is hard to be implemented?  This is dev's who took 2 weeks and 3 failed patches to find out the cause of disconnect after queue.  Which do you think is more likely to be implemented?

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Ikcen    17
5 hours ago, Venu said:

How is that different than you saying increasing server capacity is hard to be implemented?  This is dev's who took 2 weeks and 3 failed patches to find out the cause of disconnect after queue.  Which do you think is more likely to be implemented?

To increase the server capacity is very easy, but it will not solve the problem. They could increase it to 8000 and keep the server stable, there will be lag, but the game will be playable. Then more players or boxes will come, and the problem will persist. The other solution is a new server, or more expensive server infrastructure. On theory they could pay for a megaserver like this of EVE, so 50 000 players maximum capacity and up to 8000 players in one area. But this is very expensive. Or cloud based solution like BDO - so a lot of virtual servers. But again - who will pay?

The offline shops/fishing and limited boxes per IP/MAC are not so fast solution, but in general a long term fix, that will free much more space. Right now about the half of the server population is AFK. Also there are ways for monetization related - like free offline shops only in certain areas, you have to be VIP to do it everywhere. That will reduce the lag of too many NPCs in the towns, and will make the harbors - trade zones.

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Ikcen    17
56 minutes ago, sailenceWL said:

They just need to input auction house with buy items from other players 

 

This will not be Lineage 2 anymore. To walk from shop to shop searching for the best deal - this is an important part from the Lineage 2 Classic experience. Everything is in the open world, every shop is unique. The auction house for the trade is like the instanced dungeons for the PvE, or instanced arenas for the PvP. It simply will break the game. It sounds great to go on instanced raid whenever you want, or to see all the prices and the offers in one tab. But this is WoW. Open world shops are as important, as the open world bosses, sieges and wars.

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sailenceWL    11
On 10/14/2018 at 1:53 PM, Ikcen said:

This will not be Lineage 2 anymore. To walk from shop to shop searching for the best deal - this is an important part from the Lineage 2 Classic experience. Everything is in the open world, every shop is unique. The auction house for the trade is like the instanced dungeons for the PvE, or instanced arenas for the PvP. It simply will break the game. It sounds great to go on instanced raid whenever you want, or to see all the prices and the offers in one tab. But this is WoW. Open world shops are as important, as the open world bosses, sieges and wars.

I agree with that, I love that feelings.  But server stability is more important, people being able to log in etc.

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Ikcen    17
1 hour ago, sailenceWL said:

I agree with that, I love that feelings.  But server stability is more important, people being able to log in etc.

That is why we suggest offline shops, offline fishing and every day scheduled servers restart in a proper time - when the population is low. Also a limit of 1 box per PC for the free players. The restart will solve the problem with the AFK players, but as the people will fish and make shops anyway - we need offline shops and fishing.

If you do not understand - the offline shop means, when you enter the command, or click on the button in the UI, your account will be automatically disconnected from the server, and your character's shop will stay as a NPC.

Edited by Ikcen

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beleaua    66

they will never introduce offline shops, that's a concept of pirate servers. they actually have something to gain and not lose when a korean is spending more time in their games through their internet cafe. so for them it's set in stone. they also can't increase server capacity to more than 6k.

never mind those 2 disadvantages, but i think old shops in a game are a bit a thing of the past. too much lag, too much time consuming to see them all, no sorting, having to waste energy to keep your pc open, maybe you want to hunt but also need to sell stuff, keeping servers slots and so on. live servers have both auction hall and shops and i see nothing wrong with it.

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Devoid    122
On 10/13/2018 at 5:51 PM, Ikcen said:

Obviously you do not understand the technical side. As I say - the offline shop is NPC, it is not a player.

Yes, you do not understand the technical side at all. If an offline shop is a NPC, then everyone will be exploiting this feature.

The simplest exploit example being setting up SSB/SSA private shops in Catas/Necros among tens of aggro high level mobs and going offline, safe from any harm.

Not to mention PKers who would want to do shops in towns - no more daggers luring guards to kill karma-having players in peace zones.

And, of course, the botmasters will be truly happy to set up these offline shop NPCs on all congestion points, like good old times, making it impossible to move into/out of Giran square. While GMs would be powerless to move those shops, since they are NPCs and cannot be managed the way players are.

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Ikcen    17
18 minutes ago, Devoid said:

Yes, you do not understand the technical side at all. If an offline shop is a NPC, then everyone will be exploiting this feature.

The simplest exploit example being setting up SSB/SSA private shops in Catas/Necros among tens of aggro high level mobs and going offline, safe from any harm.

Not to mention PKers who would want to do shops in towns - no more daggers luring guards to kill karma-having players in peace zones.

And, of course, the botmasters will be truly happy to set up these offline shop NPCs on all congestion points, like good old times, making it impossible to move into/out of Giran square. While GMs would be powerless to move those shops, since they are NPCs and cannot be managed the way players are.

This is solved too, long ago. The players can make offline shops only in certain areas. And you cannot make a shop when you are flagged. Also - as the people pay for more than 1 box, why they will make shops everywhere? And if you are right about the "bot masters" - what stops them to do it now, with online shops? Offline shops exist and work fine for a good reason. Also why you think the GM cannot move them? I mean you made few good points, that are solved, and few absurd points. When your character is killed in offline shop/fishing mode, you get the same penalty as usual - but when you log in. NPC - does not mean your character is immortal, or cannot be managed by the game masters.

Edited by Ikcen

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hyucksama    3

Just create a new board dedicated to trading, that would help a lot.

I've been trying to get 4 morning star heads to no avail, holding my grinding back so I'm losing potential money in the meantime.

If anyone has morning star heads to sell in Talking Island, please let me know. I'm tight on money but I'm very open to reasonable offers.

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Ikcen    17
8 minutes ago, hyucksama said:

Just create a new board dedicated to trading, that would help a lot.

I've been trying to get 4 morning star heads to no avail, holding my grinding back so I'm losing potential money in the meantime.

If anyone has morning star heads to sell in Talking Island, please let me know. I'm tight on money but I'm very open to reasonable offers.

Again, that will not be L2 anymore. Player's shops in the open world mean other players will walk around, will compete, and maybe even will cooperate in searching of the best deal. Your clan mate will check the prices in Giran, while you will check the prices in Dion. Or even different parts of the market in one town. At the same time you will compete with the other players for the good deals. It is not like the auction house where you see the lower and the higher prices right in the moment. It is a game in the game. Even when the owners of the shops are AFK or offline, everyone of them gives you his unique basket with deals. Soon or later you will learn which players buy/sell a certain resources and items at the best prices. Which are the best craftsmen. You may even buy cheap to sell expensive.

It is so much easier the PvP to be placed on one place, connected to the world, so the grind of the solo players to be safe and sound. It is so much easier the raids and the need of cooperation to be placed in some instance, so everyone could enter any time - no need of things like constant parties or guild/clan mates. It is so much easier to break the game on easy pieces. But easier is not better.
Edited by Ikcen

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Devoid    122
2 hours ago, Ikcen said:

This is solved too, long ago. The players can make offline shops only in certain areas. And you cannot make a shop when you are flagged. Also - as the people pay for more than 1 box, why they will make shops everywhere? And if you are right about the "bot masters" - what stops them to do it now, with online shops? Offline shops exist and work fine for a good reason. Also why you think the GM cannot move them? I mean you made few good points, that are solved, and few absurd points. When your character is killed in offline shop/fishing mode, you get the same penalty as usual - but when you log in. NPC - does not mean your character is immortal, or cannot be managed by the game masters.

If this NPC is actually a player (which you just stated), then it DOES take a player's slot and it is as resource heavy (real NPCs have calculations done differently, including things applied on top, like passive skills and buffs).

There is a much easier way to achieve "offline" shops than what you said – remove the count of private stores (already tracked) from online player count during the checks made on login. And that's the problem – the resource usage will still reflect the full amount of players.

Your proposed solution would save a bit of upload bandwidth over mine, but that's all. When soulshots only activate each 10 seconds, even though you can attack/use skills just fine, that is NOT an upload bandwidth issue.

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Ikcen    17
5 hours ago, Devoid said:

If this NPC is actually a player (which you just stated), then it DOES take a player's slot and it is as resource heavy (real NPCs have calculations done differently, including things applied on top, like passive skills and buffs).

There is a much easier way to achieve "offline" shops than what you said – remove the count of private stores (already tracked) from online player count during the checks made on login. And that's the problem – the resource usage will still reflect the full amount of players.

Your proposed solution would save a bit of upload bandwidth over mine, but that's all. When soulshots only activate each 10 seconds, even though you can attack/use skills just fine, that is NOT an upload bandwidth issue.

Dude, this is stupid. You are trying to think about some problem, but you have no clue, what you are thinking about. There is not such a thing as player's slot. There are connection channels, that are limited. If your character stays in the game as NPC, so controlled by the AI, as it stays in every shop in fact - check the exchange and the shop to see the difference, it does not need a connection channel. You may be AFK now, as the shop you placed works without you. You actually do nothing. It is NPC already. Also it dies if something - like aggressive mobs attack it. And you cannot make a shop when you are flagged or in combat. That is how it works NOW. All I suggest is to be possible the shop to be offline. So instead you stay AFK, your account to be disconnected so another player can use the free connection channels. It is very small and easy change actually.

Edited by Ikcen

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PyroAmos    5

Offline shops would cut the game play of market players, a very real game play style, and one of L2s more unique options for playing the game.

Edited by PyroAmos

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Ikcen    17
1 hour ago, PyroAmos said:

Offline shops would cut the game play of market players, a very real game play style, and one of L2s more unique options for playing the game.

No. They will not. How you even imaged that? What you can do now after you open a shop, except to wait AFK? Nothing. It works like NPC. And there is not any problem you to be offline, so another player to connect.

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Devoid    122
5 hours ago, Ikcen said:

Dude, this is stupid. You are trying to think about some problem, but you have no clue, what you are thinking about. There is not such a thing as player's slot. There are connection channels, that are limited. If your character stays in the game as NPC, so controlled by the AI, as it stays in every shop in fact - check the exchange and the shop to see the difference, it does not need a connection channel. You may be AFK now, as the shop you placed works without you. You actually do nothing. It is NPC already. Also it dies if something - like aggressive mobs attack it. And you cannot make a shop when you are flagged or in combat. That is how it works NOW. All I suggest is to be possible the shop to be offline. So instead you stay AFK, your account to be disconnected so another player can use the free connection channels. It is very small and easy change actually.

I already told you, and you keep confirming, that this would save some upload bandwidth, but that's not the issue that causes ss lag that always follows the large player numbers.

Since NPC stats are calculated differently by design (you can try using the same formulas that work for player stats on your summon - they will not work, at all), making sure that the offline shop would only die if the player would die, means that it must be a player's object (sorry for the misleading comment above), with all the heavy resource and persistence usage that it comes with.

Once again, your proposed solution does not address the primary issue associated with excessive amounts of players, even if it was as easy to implement as you imagine (hint: it is not, this is not a custom emulator).

Edited by Devoid

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Ikcen    17
4 hours ago, Devoid said:

I already told you, and you keep confirming, that this would save some upload bandwidth, but that's not the issue that causes ss lag that always follows the large player numbers.

Since NPC stats are calculated differently by design (you can try using the same formulas that work for player stats on your summon - they will not work, at all), making sure that the offline shop would only die if the player would die, means that it must be a player's object (sorry for the misleading comment above), with all the heavy resource and persistence usage that it comes with.

Once again, your proposed solution does not address the primary issue associated with excessive amounts of players, even if it was as easy to implement as you imagine (hint: it is not, this is not a custom emulator).

You have no idea what you are talking about. Please try to do something with your character after you open a shop. The shop will be closed. You shop is NPC. You cannot play with it. It is controlled by the AI. That is how it works. illegal servers are not custom emulators - why you use words without knowing the meaning? They are exactly the same as this server. In fact they use similar software, and some of them even the official version of the game with custom patches. Some of them are even better. I played on illegal server where L2 Classic has better graphics and looks like a new game. So they made many improvements. But the offline shop is simple and old. And your only argument is - it cannot be made, it would be if it was possible. But the fact is - it can, and it is even easy to be made.

Edited by Ikcen

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Medeoan    38
On 10/13/2018 at 9:40 AM, WutWutWut said:

Just auctioner to sell your shit :)

The auction system doesn't account for warsmith shops who still have to be logged in in order to run.

 

Aside from fishing, where the problem is the automation, y'all need to stop focusing on the wrong things that are not issues. The issues are the small size of total permissible population that can be on at once and the lack of enough servers to satisfy the sheer amount of interest Lineage II Classic has generated. Higher capacity, more servers, and server transfers to the new servers would correct pretty much all the issues.

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Krissa    87
1 hour ago, Ikcen said:

You have no idea what you are talking about. Please try to do something with your character after you open a shop. The shop will be closed. You shop is NPC. You cannot play with it. It is controlled by the AI. That is how it works.

Oh lol.

Have you tried to clan chat from a NPC?

Technically, you can even get XP sitting in a shop.

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Ikcen    17
1 hour ago, Krissa said:

Oh lol.

Have you tried to clan chat from a NPC?

Technically, you can even get XP sitting in a shop.

Technically you can do nothing, and you can take experience even offline. As for the chat, it is completely separated thing from the game. Can you chat and control your character at the same time, try to write in the chat and to move your character with the mouse - it is not possible. You do not have slightest idea how the game works obviously.

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Krissa    87
26 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

Technically you can do nothing, and you can take experience even offline. As for the chat, it is completely separated thing from the game. Can you chat and control your character at the same time, try to write in the chat and to move your character with the mouse - it is not possible. You do not have slightest idea how the game works obviously.

Are you trying to troll or are you really so clueless?

You can write in the chat and move your character with the mouse. All you need to do is turn off "Enter chat".

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Arinulis    39
2 minutes ago, Krissa said:

Are you trying to troll or are you really so clueless?

You can write in the chat and move your character with the mouse. All you need to do is turn off "Enter chat".

I'm certain that was a troll.... it had to have been. 

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Nothof    19

Auction House is not good for the game economy and personal enjoyment. 

Shops are part of the game. Setting a shop in the right place with the right price is a game changer. 

Also I think Offline shop still acts as a player slot.

The best think they could do is add teleport cost after level 20. People who uses shops will understand what I mean. 

 

Edited by Nothof
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Ikcen    17
1 hour ago, Krissa said:

Are you trying to troll or are you really so clueless?

You can write in the chat and move your character with the mouse. All you need to do is turn off "Enter chat".

So you are not so clues :) But the chat is not related to the game.

58 minutes ago, Nothof said:

Auction House is not good for the game economy and personal enjoyment. 

Shops are part of the game. Setting a shop in the right place with the right price is a game changer. 

Also I think Offline shop still acts as a player slot.

The best think they could do is add teleport cost after level 20. People who uses shops will understand what I mean. 

 

Agree about the auction house, player's shops are essential for L2. But there is not such a thing as player slot. It is all about the connections. Offline shops will solve a huge part of the problem. There are additional things, like you cannot open a shop before a certain level, you cannot have more than 1 account opened per PC. Everyday restarts. And etc.

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