Ideas behind lowered adena rates?

[PeachPanther]

It was stated by @Hime that the adena rates are lower than other servers because this is free to play. Completely understood. 

Firstly I want to say that as someone who also works on the customer side of a software company, I realize that the things posted by @Hime are not her decisions and she does not have control over what the company does, she can only provide us with info. So I can appreciate the way you've handled the borderline harassment thus far.

With that said, I've been trying to understand how low adena rates help the company at all monetarily.

There is nothing you can even pay for that will compensate for this issue once you go beyond D grade. So if the rates were low for 1-40 mobs, that would make a lot of sense. 

Say you spend whatever it costs monthly to maintain your VIP4, there's no real benefit other than leveling faster which then puts you in a worse place because mobs get harder and cost of leveling just goes up. So one could argue that NOT spending any money on coins would be better for your adena. 

I'm not really sure what their intentions were with this, it just doesn't make any logical sense. It does not provide them with any extra income beyond level 40, unless of course they plan on introducing C and B grade shots to the store, which I think people would be unhappy with but would still be justified on NC's side of things.

Of course I could be completely missing something here and be totally off. 

This isn't really a complaint, because I've done what everyone else has done and farmed on a mid 20s character. Just maybe hoping for a little clarity?

[Jesus]

I just cant see any logical reason to lower the rates even if its a free to play server. The game wasnt build to be played with this rates, i honestly feel like even 1-40 mobs have their rates wrong not just 40+ and the only way to fix this would be to reset all the rates to EU/RU servers and drecrease it from there, thats ofc if they wanna keep this nonsense of f2p=low drop rate, the ideal fix would be to stay with the same rates from EU but unfortunately has we can see that wont happen.

[Gillahouse]

They want people to buy shots from the ncstore.

[PeachPanther]

4 minutes ago, Gillahouse said:

They want people to buy shots from the ncstore.

I covered that. This only works if people don't level beyond 50(being generous)

[VincentColpa]

imho I think these rates are intended. mainly when you see them changing the rates patters depending on areas. Area levels and area population are factors.

If they wanted to make harder for people who does not pay they would for example divide ALL RATES (XP/SP/Adena/Quest/Spoil) by half or even by a third.

Now, when you see them decreasing the adena/spoil rate a lot more than the EXP rate, and together they offer EXP in multiple ways and play with us saying that they will fix adena rates for more than 1 month its pretty obvious that all of this is intended and studied.

They first 'fixed' low level rates. Then 'fixed' some areas at higher levels then they are looking at it, while lots of players are trying to get workarounds for these problem they created intentionally by spending real money. 

I must say, that NCSoft is a bleeping smart company. In almost two months they did what they wanted. they drained tons of thousands of dollars for a revenue ( curiously almost at the end of the year ) 

Then, sometimes, they come to the forum and post things like:

'We are aware of rate issues, I visited some areas and indeed is incorrect and its being reviewed'

this is done sometimes to simply wash our eyes and give them more time to think about the next move.

Trust me when I say that all of these 'issues' were intended.

[PeachPanther]

10 minutes ago, VincentColpa said:

imho I think these rates are intended. mainly when you see them changing the rates patters depending on areas. Area levels and area population are factors.

If they wanted to make harder for people who does not pay they would for example divide ALL RATES (XP/SP/Adena/Quest/Spoil) by half or even by a third.

Now, when you see them decreasing the adena/spoil rate a lot more than the EXP rate, and together they offer EXP in multiple ways and play with us saying that they will fix adena rates for more than 1 month its pretty obvious that all of this is intended and studied.

They first 'fixed' low level rates. Then 'fixed' some areas at higher levels then they are looking at it, while lots of players are trying to get workarounds for these problem they created intentionally by spending real money. 

I must say, that NCSoft is a bleeping smart company. In almost two months they did what they wanted. they drained tons of thousands of dollars for a revenue ( curiously almost at the end of the year ) 

Then, sometimes, they come to the forum and post things like:

'We are aware of rate issues, I visited some areas and indeed is incorrect and its being reviewed'

this is done sometimes to simply wash our eyes and give them more time to think about the next move.

Trust me when I say that all of these 'issues' were intended.

I know they're intended. The very first sentence in my post was stating that they've already acknowledged that they were intended. 

This post is not about asking for a fix, I'm genuinely trying to understand the reasoning behind why the rates are low. I'm not sure this is information they'll provide, but it's worth asking

[VincentColpa]

I guess they won't because they keep stating that they will fix and fix and fix... we just need to realize that the objective is to get you fast to high levels with low gear ( mainly new players and players from LIVE dont know how it was done in the old days ) and that will lead players to eventually spend real money. that is the whole point of this rates. but obviously they won't admit it

[PeachPanther]

4 minutes ago, VincentColpa said:

I guess they won't because they keep stating that they will fix and fix and fix... we just need to realize that the objective is to get you fast to high levels with low gear ( mainly new players and players from LIVE dont know how it was done in the old days ) and that will lead players to eventually spend real money. that is the whole point of this rates. but obviously they won't admit it

That's exactly what doesn't make sense. What do they offer in the store that would tempt you to spend money once you're high level? 

 

Once you stop using D-grade you cannot buy anything that will help you progress in the game

[VincentColpa]

well in fact that is true, but botters and full cp's won't have this kind of issues since they have taken the 'fixed' drop/spoil areas. those botters and full cp's are the ones that own VIP 4 and are the ones that are getting all the attention

but in fact, l2 store won't help, the only motivation for increasing rates is VIP 4 as increases drop rate which means something

another thing its the way they intentionally made dwarves useless, so solo players can easily have hard times to manage their economy

[Karnz]

36 minutes ago, PeachPanther said:

I covered that. This only works if people don't level beyond 50(being generous)

Till they put C grade soulshots in the L2Store, then B grade shots later on, which I'm surprised didn't happen with yesterday's maintenance....

[VincentColpa]

Just now, Karnz said:

Till they put C grade soulshots in the L2Store, then B grade shots later on, which I'm surprised didn't happen with yesterday's maintenance....

you are right, and probably that will happen yes. 

[Hime]

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

[Lawman]

10 minutes ago, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

Thank you very much for the clarification.  It is odd that you did the few areas you did, given that the player feedback (especially as to areas where spellbooks drop) came before you made the changes.  And you still have not clarified whether you considered a simple, across the board, percentage of 1x 1.5 rates and why you have not chosen that simple universal solution.  Also, I'm just curious as to what other official classic free to play server you got the rates from.  My ignorance, but I didn't realize there were any.  

[sdfsdfsdfsdf]

22 minutes ago, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

 

Your response is appreciated.

 

 

Curious to hear the reasoning behind " Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here"

Its not like each region is playing a completely different game? Or the game is being played by an entity other than humans? 

Adena and drop rates by principle should be the same in every region no? The way everyone plays the game in each region is generally the same? Just curious on why you think Adena scaling should be altered/reduced for NA? And why you think standardised Adena rates would be a negative thing? Why would reducing it positively impact game play?

 

And secondly 

"The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve."

 

I'm curious also to learn in which way does NCWest operate? It concerns be deeply that it wasn't picked up on way before launch?
I mean i its not like its something you would have to dig really deep to discover. It realistically should of been one of the first thing on the list of play testers.... 'does the basic game mechanics work as intended?' Nope. Fix. Release game with intended rates. 

 

What has happened so far has ultimately hurt yourselves and loss of population is clear already. 

 

I hope in the future such calamities and blunders dont happen again.  

 

[PeachPanther]

1 hour ago, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

 

Thank you. The feedback is appreciated

[Silence]

2 hours ago, PeachPanther said:

This post is not about asking for a fix, I'm genuinely trying to understand the reasoning behind why the rates are low. I'm not sure this is information they'll provide, but it's worth asking

This particular course of action, that was carried over during Lindvior update, then heightened in Valiance and finalized in GC in LIVE servers successfully proved an extremely viable way of generating constant revenue.

Now, a lot of people come, voice something etc. etc. But once the complainers leave (or suck it up), people who continue to play are forced to start paying, at one point or another (and if they refuse to take the hint, there's the GC option of just significantly increasing defensive values of ALL monsters in the game world, while walling off all new offensive capability enhancing buffs/items with a gigantic slot machine that takes 50USD per try instead of 50c.

There is nothing to understand here, other than this course of action WORKS. No matter what someone may try to tell you, or what smart-sounding schemes they might try to counterargument with, that does not change the fact this is how people WANT to play the game.

[Decayed]

50 minutes ago, sdfsdfsdfsdf said:

 

Your response is appreciated.

 

 

Curious to hear the reasoning behind " Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here"

Its not like each region is playing a completely different game? Or the game is being played by an entity other than humans? 

Adena and drop rates by principle should be the same in every region no? The way everyone plays the game in each region is generally the same? Just curious on why you think Adena scaling should be altered/reduced for NA? And why you think standardised Adena rates would be a negative thing? Why would reducing it positively impact game play?

 

And secondly 

"The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve."

 

I'm curious also to learn in which way does NCWest operate? It concerns be deeply that it wasn't picked up on way before launch?
I mean i its not like its something you would have to dig really deep to discover. It realistically should of been one of the first thing on the list of play testers.... 'does the basic game mechanics work as intended?' Nope. Fix. Release game with intended rates. 

 

What has happened so far has ultimately hurt yourselves and loss of population is clear already. 

 

I hope in the future such calamities and blunders dont happen again.  

 

From what I know Japan for instance has a much better VIP system. So perhaps they took the rates from them where they have more reeards and benefits for being vip.  But since we don't have the same, it completely messed things up.

The bottom line is rates are something that have to be considered carefully, not just changed haphazardly and nonchalantly because it completely impacts so many parts of the game.

Also you have to consider that the missions like alligator and fom were not available in original 1.5. so they tried taking an older version and stripping back some things yet leaving in other game altering things.

[Bordoc]

1 hour ago, sdfsdfsdfsdf said:

 

Curious to hear the reasoning behind " Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here"

Its not like each region is playing a completely different game? Or the game is being played by an entity other than humans? 

It's different when different regions are more willing to put money into the game, hence we get lower rates because people here are willing to throw away money at it more than other regions.

[Orocso]

1 hour ago, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

How exactly NC soft profits from lower adena rates?

It is not like you are selling soulshot C/B grade or gear at the store (I hope you keep it that way)

I don't see a reason to buy your xp packs, why would I rush lvling with the rates like that? Bunch of people are lvl 50+ wearing moon set and top D weaps.

Those packs on top of the xp scrolls and AI/FOM quests is just making people out level everything way too fast.

And that is also hurting the market, everyone just goes throught lvls too fast so they out level the spell books, mats, armor parts farming areas too fast, so those itens become rare and the prices go sky high, what people do? buy adena in order to afford basic stuff, like soulshots and spell books...

What is the plan to when the average player reach lvl 70 with shitty gear that wont allow them to farm the decent gear?

Since they are lvl 70 they won't be buying xp packs anymore.

[Sutrius]

6 minutes ago, Orocso said:

How exactly NC soft profits from lower adena rates?

It is not like you are selling soulshot C/B grade or gear at the store (I hope you keep it that way)

I don't see a reason to buy your xp packs, why would I rush lvling with the rates like that? Bunch of people are lvl 50+ wearing moon set and top D weaps.

Those packs on top of the xp scrolls and AI/FOM quests is just making people out level everything way too fast.

And that is also hurting the market, everyone just goes throught lvls too fast so they out level the spell books, mats, armor parts farming areas too fast, so those itens become rare and the prices go sky high, what people do? buy adena in order to afford basic stuff, like soulshots and spell books...

What is the plan to when the average player reach lvl 70 with shitty gear that wont allow them to farm the decent gear?

Since they are lvl 70 they won't be buying xp packs anymore.

well russian server that started at same time with no boosts and all randoms are lvl 70+, how many exp runes/vip you think people would have bought here when ppl are able to obtain c b grade and use shots

[iPuKaS]

 

1 hour ago, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

Hi @Hime i wonder why you guys cant make VIP 4 to be same as p2p rates(adena,spoils,drop) since Vip 4 to maintain it, it costs 15usd so ppl with vip 4 will be playing a normal server and also will make you guys get tons of money since everyone will go for vip 4 thats my humble opinion.

[ogfullmelt]

26 minutes ago, Sutrius said:

well russian server that started at same time with no boosts and all randoms are lvl 70+, how many exp runes/vip you think people would have bought here when ppl are able to obtain c b grade and use shots

Russians are not humans when it comes to L2 they are like machines. Efficient large in numbers, god speed

[Orocso]

1 hour ago, Sutrius said:

well russian server that started at same time with no boosts and all randoms are lvl 70+, how many exp runes/vip you think people would have bought here when ppl are able to obtain c b grade and use shots

Would be a lot smarter to mess with XP rates instead of adena rates if they were aiming to profit from exp runes...

[Sutrius]

they did mess with xp rates also, didnt you know 55>56 u need double xp? and i heard there is more "walls" like this further lvls

[Lawman]

5 hours ago, iPuKaS said:

 

Hi @Hime i wonder why you guys cant make VIP 4 to be same as p2p rates(adena,spoils,drop) since Vip 4 to maintain it, it costs 15usd so ppl with vip 4 will be playing a normal server and also will make you guys get tons of money since everyone will go for vip 4 thats my humble opinion.

This makes sense.  VIP4 is essentially a subscription, since it takes $16 a month to maintain (twice the cost of a subscription to the EU Classic server, btw).  It makes sense that someone paying for a subscription should get the rates that were given to the subscription players on the original servers years ago, in other words, 1x 1.5.