Beriant Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I have seen multiple threads created with people complaining about this but I think it would be beneficial to the Classic Community to have a consolidated approach and some statistics for the devs to consider before deploying such a tragic change. If you have anything else to add to this thread please feel free to do so One of the core interactions in this game is how the pvp/pk system CURRENTLY works. This game is all about risk/reward and consequences, deciding to make that PK and potentially losing your newly crafted C grade weapon after exerting a lot of effort to get it. You can not recreate this dynamic any other way, it is a truly one of a kind experience that you get with L2. Introducing PK scrolls WILL ruin this. Oh I can PK you and not worry about dropping? Great now PK's don't carry any weight. This unfortunate scenario has ripple effects throughout the entire ecosystem of this game Fights for grinding spots will heavily favor sides with PK scrolls. Why? Because if I buy a bunch of PK scrolls I am just going to kill everyone and not worry about it. I shouldn't have to explain how this will start to affect other aspects of the game such as group pvp, people with sensitive feelings quitting, and more I am sure I speak for many others when I say that one of the reason's I keep coming back for more(punishment) is the unique and intense environment that L2 creates. We all saw this get ruined at various points in the development of Lineage 2 back in the day. We now somehow(15 years later?) have the opportunity to enjoy many(but unfortunately not anywhere near all) of the glorious aspects of CLASSIC Lineage 2. This is why so many players have returned, please do not take a massive shit on us and drop PK scrolls in the shop. Please take a few moments to fill out this survey whether you agree or disagree, I have a feeling this will be monumentally one sided.https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/M7WNFRL EDIT: Do not use this thread to complain or lobby about other aspects(that you may or may not think are shit) I want this to be a clear and effective communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beriant Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 Also Adding that you can view the survey results after submitting your vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beriant Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 Thanks for all the participants thus far. Please continue to fill out the survey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynG Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 People will level up PK chars either way for clearing a spot, to kill bots, to mess around with other people - with or without scrolls. It has always been this way in every single chronicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oeste Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I understand your reasoning BUT.... there are only so many revenue streams NC can generate from the shop, the shop is the only thing giving them earnings and hence is the only thing keeping the server alive. They can choose to sell consumables, (any type of consumables they sell is would be fine for me), or Items, (I hope we don't get to see items in these servers shop other than cosmetic items or at least that they are delayed as much as possible), so between 2 evils I choose the one that in my mind is the lesser evil, go on the Pk scrolls. Pk will make the server less carebear, I am of the oppinion that Pk should not be penalized at all, this is no karma, no Pk status OR the Pk penalty should be decreased to a minimum, for example negative XP until you remove the Karma but no item drops, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmic Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 These are quite expensive to the point where not many will go around popping them at $1-3 per PK. That being said, its a nice revenue stream that I would hope to help reduce the cost of other items like xp/sp runes, we shall see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punish Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 22 minutes ago, benmic said: These are quite expensive to the point where not many will go around popping them at $1-3 per PK. That being said, its a nice revenue stream that I would hope to help reduce the cost of other items like xp/sp runes, we shall see... Think again on that, many of us are no longer 20 somethings barely making it by. Compared to a new car or some other shiny toy, this will easily fall into the "fun" money category for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beriant Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 18 hours ago, SynG said: People will level up PK chars either way for clearing a spot, to kill bots, to mess around with other people - with or without scrolls. It has always been this way in every single chronicle. This is a valid point in very small scale scenarios, sure I can level up a toon to PK solo or duo groups at lower level with minimal gear investment. But if you level up a toon to PK higher level groups with gear and you don;t fulyl invest, you are not going to be able to PK them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beriant Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Punish said: Think again on that, many of us are no longer 20 somethings barely making it by. Compared to a new car or some other shiny toy, this will easily fall into the "fun" money category for a lot of people. Agreed, it would be easy for me to purchase 100 PK scrolls If I wanted. We all know this will happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorep Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Even if i voted "NO" i want pk scrolls for a limited time only to "correct" my pks so far since if i get accidentaly any pk i wont drop anything! Im wc and i need to stun sometimes and have happened to pk someone because of that even if i didnt want! I need to correct that and not many adena to make it through the daily quest so until adenas are fixed pk scrolls for a limited time only on L2 store is a + for me!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beriant Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 12 hours ago, Oeste said: I understand your reasoning BUT.... there are only so many revenue streams NC can generate from the shop, the shop is the only thing giving them earnings and hence is the only thing keeping the server alive. They can choose to sell consumables, (any type of consumables they sell is would be fine for me), or Items, (I hope we don't get to see items in these servers shop other than cosmetic items or at least that they are delayed as much as possible), so between 2 evils I choose the one that in my mind is the lesser evil, go on the Pk scrolls. Pk will make the server less carebear, I am of the oppinion that Pk should not be penalized at all, this is no karma, no Pk status OR the Pk penalty should be decreased to a minimum, for example negative XP until you remove the Karma but no item drops, etc... NC Soft does indeed have to make money which is understandable however I personally think the shop already has many revenue generating items that are regularly being sold. You also have to spend money monthly to maintain VIP status on top of the many hundreds of people who purchase things like runes,shots,accessories, buff scrolls,etc. Im confused by your statement, are you saying PK scrolls would make the server less care bear? Or the PK system as it is? The current system in my opinion favors more towards the non care bear side, which is how the game should be and was designed from the beginning. After all, part of what ruined L2 to begin with was all the care bears. The lesser the consequences for a PK the worse the game will become, we have seen it happen before and would surely happen again if something like that was implemented. This game is meant to be ruthless and unforgiving, like I said before its all about that risk vs reward. The more you have to lose the more intense and fun this game is. As painful as it is, If I HAD to choose between PK scrolls and full blown gear in the shop I would 100% choose PK scrolls. I shutter at even typing the phrase "full gear in the shop" because that would be one monumental bleep up and would without a doubt ruin this server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beriant Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Here are the current results of the survey.http://www.surveymonkey.com/stories/SM-NZ5L2NK8/ If I had thought to do this sooner I would of happily paid to increase the survey capacity but on the current(free) plan It does not show more results after 100 people have submitted a response. But given that this change is being implemented tomorrow(I think) I am just going to let this speak for it self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NazgullSupport Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 The "NO" is winning, but not more than 100 player has vote. Whatever, as usual, NCSfot doesn't care about what players want or not, they need money and if this is a profitable way for them, then they'll do it. Just get prepared to get bleep just fur fun by the "Visa Owners". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beriant Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, Jorep said: Even if i voted "NO" i want pk scrolls for a limited time only to "correct" my pks so far since if i get accidentaly any pk i wont drop anything! Im wc and i need to stun sometimes and have happened to pk someone because of that even if i didnt want! I need to correct that and not many adena to make it through the daily quest so until adenas are fixed pk scrolls for a limited time only on L2 store is a + for me!!!!! Unfortunately the scrolls being sold for any amount of time will have a lasting affect. Accidentally PK'ing someone is part of the awesome dynamic that the current system produces, you can always choose NOT to hit them that one more time, but hey sometimes a guy takes his gear off while wearing Halloween outfit and all the sudden your red. Again choices,consequences,decisions, these types of things make L2. I accidentally PK'd someone the other night while toting my brand new c grade weapon, I then proceeded to get very very nervous and logged the bleep out. It was an awesome experience. If I had PK scrolls I would of just been like "meh, no big deal ill just pop a scroll and PK the next guy while I am at it" I hope this scenario explains to some people how certain "feels" will be removed which in my opinion has a negative impact on the game. EDIT: Also I want to point out the fact that everyone freaked out about the "no drop items on red" feature that was originally planned and rightfully so, that is a core mechanic of the system. This will in MANY scenarios produce the same exact result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorep Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Beriant said: Unfortunately the scrolls being sold for any amount of time will have a lasting affect. Accidentally PK'ing someone is part of the awesome dynamic that the current system produces, you can always choose NOT to hit them that one more time, but hey sometimes a guy takes his gear off while wearing Halloween outfit and all the sudden your red. Again choices,consequences,decisions, these types of things make L2. I accidentally PK'd someone the other night while toting my brand new c grade weapon, I then proceeded to get very very nervous and logged the bleep out. It was an awesome experience. If I had PK scrolls I would of just been like "meh, no big deal ill just pop a scroll and PK the next guy while I am at it" I hope this scenario explains to some people how certain "feels" will be removed which in my opinion has a negative impact on the game. EDIT: Also I want to point out the fact that everyone freaked out about the "no drop items on red" feature that was originally planned and rightfully so, that is a core mechanic of the system. This will in MANY scenarios produce the same exact result Everything is going according how u use it! Limited time scrolls will help some correct their mistakes like me and it might help pk-ers pk more but HOW long???? the more u pk the faster the scrolls will go to 0! And i dont like the stressful feeling and i dont want to drag me to an asylium because i dropped something valuable because of 4+ pks thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Beriant said: I accidentally PK'd someone the other night while toting my brand new c grade weapon, I then proceeded to get very very nervous and logged the bleep out. It was an awesome experience. If I had PK scrolls I would of just been like "meh, no big deal ill just pop a scroll and PK the next guy while I am at it" I hope this scenario explains to some people how certain "feels" will be removed which in my opinion has a negative impact on the game. PK scrolls reduce your PK counter, not karma. Also, PK scrolls have a 24 hour reuse time that is not written in the description (you decide whether that is a misleading advertisement now that they are sold for NCoin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjou Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 MooOn the other hand, Pk system atm is so punishing its way to easy to abuse it. I outdmg solo many full parties and thus kick them from spot. If they lose nerve and pk me, I come back in minutes max and they lose many times more exp/time then me + a potential danger of loosing item. Myself I think it requires balancing, to make it less punishing on hitting first/second/third single pk. In previous L2 versions it was on the opposite, killing 1 mob was often enough to drop karma which was as badly balanced as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynG Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Beriant said: This is a valid point in very small scale scenarios, sure I can level up a toon to PK solo or duo groups at lower level with minimal gear investment. But if you level up a toon to PK higher level groups with gear and you don;t fulyl invest, you are not going to be able to PK them. You're a bit wrong on this one and your statement is probably made only by your own personal experience (which is nothing bad, but not accurate). Some people will go extreme lengths to simply annoy others. The living example is a player named Driven, from the EU Classic, YT is full of his vids PK'ing high level, fully geared parties (not even a single individuals, but parties). At one time it became so bad you had to check if he or his boxes are online just to leave the safezone. And he's not the only one. Also don't know if you ever tried high level content of Classic, but when you hit a certain level, there's not so much to do as solo (even with full support boxes). You have to look for a party or have CP, which is not always available. So what do you do if you still want to play but you have nothing to do? You level another toon to mess around. At least quite a lot people do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siedun Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 PK system is far too punishing currently. It is great that they are introducing PK scrolls. I'm tired of KS'ers who feel invincible because of the flawed system. This is far from a perfect solution, but it is a solution nontheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envenom Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 On 11/20/2018 at 10:54 AM, SynG said: People will level up PK chars either way for clearing a spot, to kill bots, to mess around with other people - with or without scrolls. It has always been this way in every single chronicle. Actually the oposite happens...yesturday i pk 6 bot players so i can get the spot....and after about 1 hour a pker came and clear the WHOLE FORGOTTEN TEMPLE just to set 6 bot party....this game is dead and since bots never get tired this game will never have actual players.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragingducks Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Guess what: they don't give a crap about our opinion. This company is not renowned to change their view and please players. They will bury the servers to the ground and still not admit guilt in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leamak Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I am looking forward to them. I will immediately buy as many as I can. I will then seek out and slaughter every little piece of crap that has stolen packs of monsters from me , and then stood there and said kill me...no balls. Then I kill them, go red. Now I wont have to worry about dropping crap to a person that griefs me, and then calls a pack of wolves to come kill me. ++++PK scrolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punish Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I had to deliver justice last night and PK'd an individual that had just killed us in FT before we logged for the night. I got them at a port in, this was my 3rd PK total and I immediately had to make a run for it because of my location... Halfway through the field an elemental summoner saw me as an easy kill and came at me... fearing item drop I had to defend myself and engaged the individual as an OUTLAW and dispatched them easily. Standing at 4K karma the adrenaline kicked in, I needed to go somewhere, ANYWHERE before another eager soul decided they'd take a shot at me, I ran across the field and quickly dove into the water swimming to a small island with a hill, I was able to move around the hill so it was between me and the shore, giving me some ideal cover. Heart pounding and satisfied with exact retribution I removed my armor and jewels and sighed as I looked at the solid 4,000 karma I had just racked up. My SO did the rest, Windstrike after Windstrike I died a good 20% to take out 2 people, I didn't mind since the daily had given me +50% earlier for about 20 minutes worth of work. I laughed about it... at least I got em. Back to being blue after my 5 deaths, i put my armor back on and went running back to shore. I passed the elemental summoner that had tried to bring justice against me just moments earlier, I was about to give them a little love tap until I had seen they brought a friend for protection. IF you bring these scrolls into existence you will take that experience away from ALL OF US. This is bad, bad for the game, bad for the experience bad for the whole pvp > retribution dynamic (These weren't a thing back then, you do the damn sin-eater quest, that's what its there for.) I guess there is nothing much that can be done about it, I'm glad I got that last PK experience in before all I do is kill someone, take a death and pop a scroll to keep my karma down. PK's won't drop anything, being red will be meaningless, in time killing someone will be meaningless because of it. This won't be classic, this will be Lineage 2 Arcade or Lineage 2 FPS.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedu Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 pk system is broken, people come on spot ks mobs and you cant do anything. I hope the teleport event will end after this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azhar1921 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 +1, I'm not against PK, but if you want to PK then deal with the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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