Jump to content
Forums

The Game Moving Fwd?


HiccUps
 Share

Recommended Posts

It has been suggested that there has been some recent activity/action by some to temp-ban those who ask valid questions. Premised on the understanding that such initial questions were done via "being a good customer" in tone and relevance. To those questions, a customer would/should expect a thoughtful and appropriate answer. When those who could answer questions deemed 'easy' chose not to provide answers, any follow-up by the customer is rumored to be treated as inappropriate by staff and then used as a 'reason why staff did not answer' somehow forgetting the initial question which for all intents and purposes was done in an 'acceptable customer manner'.

Some recent grumblings revolve around the fact that the attrition of the game seems to be very high resulting in paying customers asking the following:

@Conguero @Neutron

What are the plans for a reduction of the current player gap and resulting game imbalance? Why should old players return to the game and what is being done to the NCWest structure to enable the current gap to be closed. Obviously based on the fact that 1 or 2 players can sway the server in any direction in sieges / raids / pvp etc added to the fact that items are being removed that could have been used as at least some components in this objective?

Should these type of questions not be answered and readily available; else, how will you attract new players and curb off the current unacceptable attrition rates on the servers in general?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The majority of top players do not want pvp and competition anyway.

as soon as they have to press more than 2 buttons to kill someone they either, quit game, bsoe or detag from their clan in order to avoid pvp.

or when they leave clan to pve (which is very pathetic)

having competition in game is bad for ncwest because their whales would stop spending since they cant  1 shot people anymore.

 

Edited by Bable2
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bable2 said:

The majority of top players do not want pvp and competition anyway.

as soon as they have to press more than 2 buttons to kill someone they either, quit game, bsoe or detag from their clan in order to avoid pvp.

or when they leave clan to pve (which is very pathetic)

having competition in game is bad for ncwest because their whales would stop spending since they cant  1 shot people anymore.

 

 Before all that circlets and legendary clocks and 6 level jewels etc I was actually able to kill a lot people in PVP with not so epic gear and +++ 3SA 99 weapon in my hands.. Now the gap between the players is so huge that the fun and real PVP is gone forever for the majority of the ppl who populate this game! And not only the level difference plays huge role too! It is absolutely pain in the ass and annoying to level up above 103 without spending real money for boosts or Heine fishing event ... . Let's not talk about the fact that above 101 the mobs just raping you everywhere even geared with +8-9 set. It's just ridiculous guys.. That's why ppl leave.

Edited by Vassy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Vassy said:

I disagree! It's not true that people don't want to PVP because they're too lazy to do PvP but because before all that circlets and legendary clocks and 6 level jewels etc I was actually able to kill a lot people in PVP with not so epic gear and +++ 3SA 99 weapon in my hands! Now the gap between the players is so huge that the fun and real PVP is gone forever for the majority of the ppl who populate this game! And not only the level difference plays huge role too! It is absolutely pain in the ass and annoying to level up above 103 without spending real money for boosts or Heine fishing event ... . Let's not talk about the fact that above 101 the mobs just raping you everywhere even geared with +8-9 set. It's just ridiculous guys.. That's why ppl leave.

you  have to read before you respond.

I said whales do not care for pvp. not normal players. 

Yes they shout all day long in hero shout, they ask for 7v7 arranged pvp like an arranged marriage BUT they do not want real pvp.

As soon as they have to press more than 3 buttons they lose interest in pvp. 

 

They just want someone to 1 shot all day long and feel good about themselves 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question is, what is a whale? The classic definition in video games is "somebody who spends a lot in the cash shop". In that sense several of Hicc's clan mates would be whales, spending cash money they have earned in real-life jobs, pure clean dollars going straight into NCsoft's coffers. Truffle, however, is not a whale in the classic sense. He is barely spending any actual money but farming adena in-game and using that to purchase L2Store items from other players:
https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/2037-conguero-neutron/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-15989

From NCsoft's point of view this does not matter - the company takes any money, no matter where it comes from. From the lowly players' point of view it does matter though. Adena farmers tend to make a nuisance of themselves, hogging hunting grounds and raid bosses, thus exponentially increasing the power of their characters at the expense of the majority of player base. The result is the current player gap and resulting game imbalance that Hicc pointed out in his original post.

Simply put, NCsoft's money laundering business model with tradeable L2Store items is a self-defeating system; it works only as long as low players see a hope of catching up to the high ones, many lowbies spending a few hundred dollars per event in the hope of making the adena - which was farmed by their tormentors - to enable them to catch up to said tormentors. Once a major number of lowbies realizes their delusion - of course they have no hope in hell to ever catch up - the system collapses. This is what happened in Japan:
https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/2305-drop-rate-nerfed-again/?tab=comments#comment-17027

Now, the Japanese situation did not come overnight. Socketka is watching happenings in Japan more closely than me, but if memory serves me right, those one-party-each sieges were going on for more than a year, and I think it's also more than a year that Korean players are soloing castles, not because they would be such mighty warriors, but because there are simply no defenders around. None at all. Hammer open the castle gate, walk in and crest. NCsoft's response to that situation is to introduce more pay-to-win items. Here the latest enchantable Agathions:
http://www.ncsoft.jp/lineage2/news/notice/view?bbsNo=3201&articleNo=5138
(click on the blue link under the pictures to get the stats)

To answer Hicc's question, this is NCsoft's plan. It doesn't reduce the player gap and the resulting game imbalance, but at least we will die in style :P


P.S.:
Please note, the wombats one-shotting people all day long are mostly the raid boss farmers, who, as you can tell from the fact that they have the time for farming raid bosses all day long, have not many other opportunities to feel good about themselves. True, cash-spending whales, however, usually have satisfying jobs which provide them with the cash they spend; they don't feel the need to ascertain their manhood by picking on people smaller than themselves xD

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bable2 said:

you  have to read before you respond.

I said whales do not care for pvp. not normal players. 

Yes they shout all day long in hero shout, they ask for 7v7 arranged pvp like an arranged marriage BUT they do not want real pvp.

As soon as they have to press more than 3 buttons they lose interest in pvp. 

They just want someone to 1 shot all day long and feel good about themselves 

Yes you are right I somehow did not see the top player word ;) I will edit my disagree part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My only real concern is once L2NA becomes truly destitute will NCKorea be willing to license it out to an third party here? Let's face it. Part time staff and outsourced support are temporary measures. The ship is already sinking, can we at least have our own life raft?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just use a dedicated vpn service like wtfast or battleping and go play on Innova just like the few crazy EU & RU ppl are doing to play on NCWest

also I think alot of ppl under estimate the effect that new pvp server strategy Korea is setting up now may have on revitalizing this game - ofc existing chars/servers will not benefit from that but the game might survive a few more years longer cause of that, who knows..

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/21/2018 at 7:20 PM, Yidao said:

Truffle, however, is not a whale in the classic sense. He is barely spending any actual money but farming adena in-game and using that to purchase L2Store items from other players:
https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/2037-conguero-neutron/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-15989

It could very much be but we don't really know that. I don't want to defend the guy but that is a quote out of context. It was about the dragon weapon and not overall purchase and there is also a comma which makes it harder: https://i.imgur.com/9VHE4rN.jpg

He did mention in another post spending many more thousands in general. So in the end we don't know, we have only player's words.

Edited by beleaua
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Draecke said:

... also I think alot of ppl under estimate the effect that new pvp server strategy Korea is setting up now may have on revitalizing this game - ofc existing chars/servers will not benefit from that but the game might survive a few more years longer cause of that, who knows..

 

For precise information we will have to wait for one more week, but so far the Bloody Principle doesn't look bad. In the meantime it has been revealed that in order to be able to use the GM Shop you must have so-called "Bloody Coins" which can be acquired from lvl 95 onwards through PvP:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=203656&site=lineage2
This means you can't simply "buy the game", as Mixa would put it, but you must actually PvP to be able to do more PvP.

As far as the future is concerned, it should be stressed that Bloody works along similar lines as Lineage 2 Classic, i.e. they share the textures, use the same map as the regular version, only with different rules, like for example no exp loss upon death. The interesting thing here is that there is no max. level for characters and the classes resp. their skills are the same as in the regular version (캐릭터는 최대 레벨 제한이 없고 기존 라이브 서버와 동일한 클래스를 플레이할 수 있다):
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=202980&site=lineage2
In other words, Bloody and regular use the same hunting grounds, the same monsters all the way to the top (think Crofin) and the same skills. So as long as Bloody lives, regular will live too. Whether Bloody will live depends on the details, mainly the prices and items in the GM Shop. Next Monday we will  know more :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Yidao said:

For precise information we will have to wait for one more week, but so far the Bloody Principle doesn't look bad. In the meantime it has been revealed that in order to be able to use the GM Shop you must have so-called "Bloody Coins" which can be acquired from lvl 95 onwards through PvP:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=203656&site=lineage2
This means you can't simply "buy the game", as Mixa would put it, but you must actually PvP to be able to do more PvP.

What about support classes ? Is there a system we’re they all in the party get bloody coins even from assists ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Yidao

I will agree that the raid boss issue is a problem, all Raid Bosses field or not should require a CC and a minimal number of players throughout the entire raid. If such number of players falls below the threshold at any point, (no matter the cause and yes including disconnects), the RB should go into invincibility mode and the raid should be reset or re-started or w/e. Having a CC with at least 2 full parties for each boss would prevent (or at least difficult) the current RB monopoly.

I disagree with the monopoly of hunting grounds, when there was someone in the spot I wanted, if he was afk, i simply kill them and use the spot for as long as I needed to and that's it, at times the "owner" may come and kill me (or try to) and things would be more interesting then.

Problem with the latter is that people don't want or fear PvP therefore, they expect hunting spots to be free and open w/e they want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 parties CC is not really going to slow down those raid farmers sad but true..

the fear of pvp part is like facepalm to me as why would you go play on an open world pvp game then.. anyways best solution would be dedicated pve server for those with one way transfer ticket aka in but never out but doubt there will be in the end enough amino for such to make it a profitable move for NC

top existing failures of current L2: afk macro's / gainax not being a siege zone / detag & retag clan in 10min / dragon instances 1 CC only with messed up respawn 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fighting over hunting grounds has been an integral part of Lineage 2 since the early Chronicles (think Antharas' Lair or Tower of Insolence). The problem with this open world PvP concept is that by now the item and level gap has widened so far that you have no chance whatsoever to fight over a spot at the Garden of Genesis or the Guillotine Fortress when suddenly a lvl 99 permared appears and one-shots you to protect his private farm. There is nothing interesting or exciting in getting killed before you have even spotted the attacker. What would be needed here is a strict caste separation, making it so that hunting grounds can only be entered by characters of the appropriate level:
https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/1950-watching-paint-dry/?tab=comments#comment-15273

In theory you could further level the playing field by introducing an overenchantment cap for weapons and armors at +5, resetting anything beyond to that value. This would have the additional advantage of removing the armor bonuses at +6, +8 and +10 as well as limiting the Soulshot bonus. Delete all Agathions, Cloaks, Talismans, including the slots where they go in the Inventory. But this would lead to a major outcry from players who have "invested" real money for Lucky Stones, Save Tickets and whatnot (while knowing fully well that all their pixels are NCsoft's).

So yes, the optimal solution would be a PvE server. I personally think it would be best if there were no transfers whatsoever, neither in nor out. A strict apartheid, like between the regular version and Lineage 2 Classic in Korea, Japan etc., with everybody starting from zero. No events, no promotions, no L2Store, just the game as it is. An economic simulation with nothing going in and nothing going out. This would force the developers to go back to the original files, with the pre-GoD drop rates, pre-GoD crafting and a pacifist manor system not tied to castles (no PvP = no sieges). But since such a server would require a substantial account creation and subscription fee to stand its ground against the regular servers, or to be at least self-paying, it will never happen in this day and age :P

Edited by Yidao
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Conguero @Neutron

Result of a topic posted in the manner suggested by you directly and now 5 days without any response to the game's simplest of questions.

So, the clients (i.e. players on a diminishing basis) continue to wonder "Why" to continue, "Why" to come back, "What" future lies in a game void of the company's inability to answer.

A new update is on the horizon - golly gee 110 gear! Oh wow - hold on....isn't this based upon the same platform, ridiculous costs, worse than lottery success rates? A continuation of the same merry-go-round that created the current situation. Given this, it would be quite logical that any "Why", "Why", and "What" answer would only be swept further under the rug with an even worse player gap created. Given you have offered no answers, optically your choice is to milk to the end with your outlook for the game being a server population of what 5 v 5 - and even then they would probably go 10 v 0 in order to gather items from RBs. O.o But....if they can kill what is in front of them, "Why" would they continue to spend.

It's very sad given there were probably a lot like me who started in this game while you were eating pizza and popping your acne 14 yrs ago who were willing to give your game another try. Even if you did endeavor to create: a 'regulated area' map /// all top items for 25-50 bucks per /// + reasonable monthly fee..... where there in fact would have been more money via that avenue and thousands returning to offset the Cpl current whales, I don't know whether or not a. they are still around, or b. whether or not you have earned any credibility for them to give you another chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imagine the ncsoft meetting like this and you will understand thier thought process.

 

5 mins before meeting, 

Gm 1 grabs his special pencil eraser from his desk, calls it his +1k eraser of doom.

Gm2 grabs his mighty mug of superiority.

Gm3 grabs his stuffed animal summons of dwindling hope.

Etc, etc for each gm..

 

The clock hits 2 mins, and they stroll into the meeting room Labled Kingdumb of Aden.. they are now offworld in another land where mere earthlings mortal minds cannot precieve the destinty they create, only that they will provide empty holes for players to fall into... and why not, these jokers are now gods.. your gods that take your time and money how they see fit... 

The rules, the problems, the very lives you live are playthings..

Ohh wait.. this is ncwest, sorry.. didnt mean to start giving you a chubby... your just in the same boat... ragging on in the fight to take everyone else down the hole you fell in.

The games only consequnce is $$=chance/item .. its not really about time=item/chance...

I play to fall in my hole, i spend what I want to on the game, time$money... 

The game isnt my everything, isnt the one thing i look forward to... so as i climb from ncsofts hole, to play in another game, or my countries hole of real life..i can find amusement in the drama of this game being peoples everything... 

Ohh, but im not being productive.. right @unnamed.. you know who you are.. i Lolz.

Edited by ZooArcher
Stupid phone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, HiccUps said:

@Conguero @Neutron

Result of a topic posted in the manner suggested by you directly and now 5 days without any response to the game's simplest of questions.

So, the clients (i.e. players on a diminishing basis) continue to wonder "Why" to continue, "Why" to come back, "What" future lies in a game void of the company's inability to answer.

A new update is on the horizon - golly gee 110 gear! Oh wow - hold on....isn't this based upon the same platform, ridiculous costs, worse than lottery success rates? A continuation of the same merry-go-round that created the current situation. Given this, it would be quite logical that any "Why", "Why", and "What" answer would only be swept further under the rug with an even worse player gap created. Given you have offered no answers, optically your choice is to milk to the end with your outlook for the game being a server population of what 5 v 5 - and even then they would probably go 10 v 0 in order to gather items from RBs. O.o But....if they can kill what is in front of them, "Why" would they continue to spend.

It's very sad given there were probably a lot like me who started in this game while you were eating pizza and popping your acne 14 yrs ago who were willing to give your game another try. Even if you did endeavor to create: a 'regulated area' map /// all top items for 25-50 bucks per /// + reasonable monthly fee..... where there in fact would have been more money via that avenue and thousands returning to offset the Cpl current whales, I don't know whether or not a. they are still around, or b. whether or not you have earned any credibility for them to give you another chance.

Very good post !

It's a shame noone of NCW will ever read it cos they are too busy counting the cloak-"event" money and laughing about us all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

at this point I'm sure they're busy with damage control trying to figure out how to stop the mass exodus.. the damage is already done on Chronos server though, market is a wreck with so many items flooding the market of ppl quitting.. good time to buy +10 pve/pvp sets with those prices at 40 max 50bil..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some might say damage control would be formulating an answer to my three questions. :) If you can't answer why ppl should play / how you will balance game / how you can reduce gap then there really is no future....because if you can't get those you shammed into playing again who spent money foolishly trying to catch up and be competitive until realism set in (myself included), then again there is no future.....it's just unfathomable a company who can't tell you why to buy their product.......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...