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Fix clan war system


wari
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The current system is broken bc there is no "benefit" to holding an active war.  The entire aspect of afk xp + my teleports creates a massive benefit to the attacking player.  The afk person has no way to actively defend against the attack, so why would anyone keep an open war?

The other issue is the penalty for leaving a clan is insignificant.  There needs to be a much bigger penalty for leaving a clan.  My suggestion is a 14 day penalty when leaving a clan for any player over level 110.  This will prevent anyone who detags after siege completed to not be able to participate in the defense of the next castle siege while tagged.  This could definitely be done to our current war system to try and force people to not detag without much change.

 

The 1st issue I noted about afk ganking, well i dont have good solution for that yet.  But, if everyone stays tagged in the 1st place, things might be better.

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Thankfully someone finally posted all the reasons why the war system is not working, isn't enjoyable or challenging for any of us PVP based players, we have invested and keep investing on PVP items, set up and level so we could finally get entertainment and now we get the opposite. After gearing up my toon and being able to actually be part of the PVP, now is incredibly disappointing. 

It is a fact that @Juji@Hime @LIME this game urgently needs a few changes in PVP/PK System since it just made the game completely boring, totally AFK and giving advantages to the players who want to fight only in the best scenario. Is not only from my side, but from all the top players and spenders that want a challenge, something fresh and new to feel like our investment actually worth something and wasn't a waste or keeps being a waste. 

It's a + to change the 14 members clan as a requirement to send a war, and in my personal opinion, if you guys will keep this dynamic, at least should make these players not able to PK/Flag others or PVP out of combat areas. This way the players abusing this system wouldn't be able to take part of other activities in which they are taking full advantage of this. Either this, or a new mechanics like this one in which level also is taken in count for war declarations. 

If we don't see any changes on the PVP/PK system I'm 100% positive NCSoft will loose a big part of the top players because honestly and not for being rude at all, the game is now completely AFK and boring.

Thank you for your time and attention

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4 minutes ago, Dawe said:

I have a question... Why do you need a PvP zone at dragons?

And yes, the game is just AFK and boring.

valakas can be stolen by who clicks faster and it is not a pvp zone.  if you wanna prevent that, you have to flag first or pk, both of which put you at a disadvantage to click.

 

edit: half the dragons are disabled atm.  so maybe they need to re-enable them too while were at it.

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5 minutes ago, Dawe said:

I have a question... Why do you need a PvP zone at dragons?

And yes, the game is just AFK and boring.

Well as last dragons is only script port and bring 49+ boxes deads, and on fafurion last hit, 0 pvp for it

 

Tbh idk they removed lindvior/antharas aswell those rats

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3 minutes ago, iHyperlite said:

both of which put you at a disadvantage to click.

Can you elaborate?

 

Another thing, if you're dead can you talk with the npc, or press the link on the opened npc window?

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the gms to ban for saying "virgin" in chat, to remove bans for bot because there are 50 weasels crying move very fast, but to make a positive change in the server they have to send smoke signals to korea and wait 5 years for the answer

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remove afk hunting system and boom problem solved.  enforce macro keyboards for 24 7 use (you should be there if you are using a keyboard macro imo but noone ever is), make it were people make a live party for xp and farming, and pvp and wars will return. everything went down hill when auto hunt was put in game.

 

not only will you solve the pvp problem and war problem, but you will solve the people who farm zones with 5-6 archers that share the same gear.

 

everyone trying to point blame in wrong direction... auto hunt killed alot of things and made people think they can macro keyboard as well 24 7... ncsoft, you can fix this with out rewriting anything just for ncwest, just remove afk macro  auto hunt.

 

current state of game ... 'if i dont macro 24 7, i will get out leveled and geared by those who will do it 24 7 so i must keep up." this  argument would be null if auto hunt is removed. remove this advantage and put people on a more healthy playing field, make the actually play, pvp will happen because other than a bathroom break once in awhile, everyone is there.

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36 minutes ago, Dragoh said:

+1... we dont need 14 otakus on clan saying they are the best when they dont have balls to war up... NCSOFT let the ppl who want to war to do war, fix the dead game :3

see, ncsoft  IS letting people who want to war war, you are trying to force people that don't want it to have it, no, need a better way, cuz your just asking to hit people afk to feel good about your investment.  You want live pvp, real pvp, like the old days, war means nothing, and notice every1 crying from big clans all have light castles, why don't you start there?  Don't want some1 like me getting ANY advantage? 

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1 hour ago, Dawe said:

Can you elaborate?

 

Another thing, if you're dead can you talk with the npc, or press the link on the opened npc window?

if u are a dagger, u can sit in fake death with the dialog box open.  but you cannot open a dialog box while dead or fake death.  A dead person also cant click to enter.

 

 

regarding the disadvantage: the 1st to flag can be attacked by all freely.  you risk a pk which if that happens, gg.   standing at the npc, not flagging back, is the smartest play to take that raid because it is normal field rules (flag/pk/war in effect).

also, whoever clicks fastest takes that dragon.  and if we think ppl who always take valakas are doing it with hands, you would be sadly mistaken. even the cc of 40+ is loaded by 1-5 players...

 

 

everything about the valakas raid is setup to try and take the raid with minimal pvp. it doesnt make any sense.

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i wonder if the aspect of non target aoe's inadvertantly flagging someone who is set to target to mob, if that was fixed, would there be a way to open war on an afk person?  i think not unless they fought back.

 

maybe ncsoft needs to look at the non target aoe mechanics outside of a siege/combat zone.  Maybe the skill mechanics can change based on target to taunt/pc/mob and.or current zone settings

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1 hour ago, Dawe said:

So people just stand there, and not 1-shot enemy CC Leader?

and go red, then they attack your red and you cant do anything about it. they swap cc leader, their problem is solved. so are you going to pk all 40+ toons?  and how will you prevent them from res'ing themselves after you pk?

 

thats alot of karma....

 

edit: i think you missed my comment where 1 person is driving 20+ toons on 1 pc.  swapping cc leader is no issue.

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On 6/3/2021 at 5:10 PM, Degus said:

see, ncsoft  IS letting people who want to war war, you are trying to force people that don't want it to have it, no, need a better way, cuz your just asking to hit people afk to feel good about your investment.  You want live pvp, real pvp, like the old days, war means nothing, and notice every1 crying from big clans all have light castles, why don't you start there?  Don't want some1 like me getting ANY advantage? 

no u wrong, cause when u send war u have to accept it, if u dont accept it the war never start... noone is forcing to do anything, its different to send war to 14 guy that are top on server and make them stay quiet cause they rlly dont war us instead no war and let them do whatever they want with bigs clan... 

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7 hours ago, Degus said:

@iHyperliteA million times, but what's the actual issue?   Clan's that don't want a war should be forced into it because the other clan spent a lot of money and wanna see blue names flash by? 

Are you asking in general or to my posts? I have stated pretty clearly what I think the problem is.

There is no reason to stay in a clan of more than 14 people in the current state of the game. There is no benefit to holding a war and no penalty for ending or detaging. People detag right after siege, and join 14- man clans to pve for 13 days, only to retag up for siege, rinse, repeat.

This is not how the clan and war system is supposed to work.

There is also the aspect of non target aoe's inadvertently starting wars because the 5 kill mechanism is abused by some people.

 

I have suggested a couple of things to combat these, as have other people. 

1 solution is making the penalty for leaving a clan on lvl 110+ people 14 days. This would prevent them from sieging under their main tag on the defense siege 2 weeks later.

Another solution is to remove the 14 man protection of war status for a clan. 

Another solution is to revamp how wars are accepted and started.

Another solution is to make non target aoe's behave according to how the in game target selection is set to (monster, pc, taunt) to prevent inadvertent flagging. 

 

 

I don't honestly see how anyone can read through the non toxic comments in this thread and still wonder what we are discussing, no offense m8. 

 

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I think just go back to the original red system, 3 pks and you might drop something. And make it hard to work off. And war is 2 way however many members, or should be. The 5 time thing is dumb. While I'm at it, maybe it would be better to just  reinstate monthly fee and item drops again. And 9 person parties and introduce some kind of armor that's as strong as dragon weapons, call it dragon armor? Last thing bring back or introduce some giant siege stuff like trebuchet or Giant Golems etc. 

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On 6/5/2021 at 6:09 PM, iHyperlite said:

Are you asking in general or to my posts? I have stated pretty clearly what I think the problem is.

There is no reason to stay in a clan of more than 14 people in the current state of the game. There is no benefit to holding a war and no penalty for ending or detaging. People detag right after siege, and join 14- man clans to pve for 13 days, only to retag up for siege, rinse, repeat.

This is not how the clan and war system is supposed to work.

There is also the aspect of non target aoe's inadvertently starting wars because the 5 kill mechanism is abused by some people.

 

I have suggested a couple of things to combat these, as have other people. 

1 solution is making the penalty for leaving a clan on lvl 110+ people 14 days. This would prevent them from sieging under their main tag on the defense siege 2 weeks later.

Another solution is to remove the 14 man protection of war status for a clan. 

Another solution is to revamp how wars are accepted and started.

Another solution is to make non target aoe's behave according to how the in game target selection is set to (monster, pc, taunt) to prevent inadvertent flagging. 

 

 

I don't honestly see how anyone can read through the non toxic comments in this thread and still wonder what we are discussing, no offense m8. 

 

 

 

On 6/5/2021 at 6:09 PM, iHyperlite said:

 

Well, your kinda right, too toxic to go back and step by step.  Give my opinion on a few ya just stated though.  Droping clan and retagging, I agree, should be way longer, not really part of the war system though, strategy.   Starting a war w/ non-target aoe's forcing a war, again, not a war system problem, it's a game problem.   I won't take offense because I think a lot are trying to put their own problems into a clan war problem.   You think it's right to MAKE a clan accept a war?  Ask yourself that question.  Black and white question, yes or no, should a clan be forced to war another clan they don't want to, that's what I want to hear you answer.   If you scroll back, you'll see people saying, no siege unless clan war, no dragon's unless clan war, F that!  I agree there a flaws in the war system, but not as many as these people are crying about.   Remove protection if clan is too small, that's the 1 and only way to safe from level 120 griefers w/ 100K$ of gear griefing 112's because they have nothing left to do (buy).   Clan war should be a 2 sided decision, not forced.

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18 hours ago, Degus said:

 

 

Well, your kinda right, too toxic to go back and step by step.  Give my opinion on a few ya just stated though.  Droping clan and retagging, I agree, should be way longer, not really part of the war system though, strategy.   Starting a war w/ non-target aoe's forcing a war, again, not a war system problem, it's a game problem.   I won't take offense because I think a lot are trying to put their own problems into a clan war problem.   You think it's right to MAKE a clan accept a war?  Ask yourself that question.  Black and white question, yes or no, should a clan be forced to war another clan they don't want to, that's what I want to hear you answer.   If you scroll back, you'll see people saying, no siege unless clan war, no dragon's unless clan war, F that!  I agree there a flaws in the war system, but not as many as these people are crying about.   Remove protection if clan is too small, that's the 1 and only way to safe from level 120 griefers w/ 100K$ of gear griefing 112's because they have nothing left to do (buy).   Clan war should be a 2 sided decision, not forced.

People complain about non target aoes opening a war in the current system. You say that's a game problem, not a clan war problem. OK, fine. Call it whatever you want, but they are related, and can be discussed as such. 

To your direct question: if I declare on a clan, and they kill my clan members 5 times, they should open war. I am fine the the declared status and 5 kills. 

The detag issue is my only complaint in this thread. I think the war declaration system is fine. I think the 5 kills to open a war is fine. I dislike people flagging with non target aoe's, but I'm sort of whatever on that. 

 

The stuff about dragons, etc.   All dragons should be pvp zones like at swords and siege.

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On 6/5/2021 at 5:43 PM, Fumb said:

I think just go back to the original red system, 3 pks and you might drop something. And make it hard to work off. And war is 2 way however many members, or should be. The 5 time thing is dumb. While I'm at it, maybe it would be better to just  reinstate monthly fee and item drops again. And 9 person parties and introduce some kind of armor that's as strong as dragon weapons, call it dragon armor? Last thing bring back or introduce some giant siege stuff like trebuchet or Giant Golems etc. 

Unfortunately, this a game rife with exploiters, and the PK system is still too flawed to be counted as a legitimate means of rectifying the issues being discussed. 

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