One of the things that is truly killing the game

[Oeste]

My biggest disgust with the current state of L2 is the fact that some players keep insisting in isolating everyone but the OP, going into a party room and being accepted just to be told "pls link your weapon" and getting kicked if you "don't meet their standard" is simply stupid. This does not often happen to me, (and when it does I never get kicked), but the rare times people have asked me to link my weapon or they kick someone for this reason makes my blood boil.

I know all the excuses and explanations that are provided for this, but if we don't allow the lower level players to integrate with the end game community how can we expect the population to remain stable?. Nothing happens if you fail altar once or twice in a week but in the process you helped a healer, (or any other class), learn the ropes, the next time you're stuck for 30 minutes looking for a party member, you will have someone to PM and save the day.

So my new year's resolution is: If I am in a party and get asked to link my weapon I will, but then I will drop the party. If someone else is kicked for gear reasons I will drop also and party that guy to do something else.

[Helv]

As one of the players who almost always gets kicked after shifting the weapon I admire your new year's resolution

on the other hand I think NC Soft is mostly to blame, because they make instances for certain levels, but at the same time make them impossible or close-to-impossible to complete by players with medium gear, for example my main is a wynn 103 and I have a blessed retri +7 1SA (p atk 7%), quite a nice augument. I was lucky to be taken to altar once, everyone except me had shiny gear, mostly pink weapons, everyone including myself used self rose but we still failed due to low dps (we weren't dying, healer was doing very good job, but didn't have enough time).

With my gear I can currently go to Kama with 7ppl, and that's the max I can get. I decided to focus on my dual healer, but also had trouble, so now I'm back to playing wynn trying to figure out what to do next. After fishing I've lost all means of income, but I'm not mentally ready to quit just yet :>

[Oeste]

The origin may be NC, but the sin is ours. Only us can fix it, we need to step up and own our faults. 

[Znipo]

Never asked someone to show their weapon, armor or anything else and I never will - I always did scold people for doing it & afterward dropping out of party.

 

Elitist parties? no thank you!

 

Quote

As one of the players who almost always gets kicked after shifting the weapon I admire your new year's resolution

on the other hand I think NC Soft is mostly to blame, because they make instances for certain levels, but at the same time make them impossible or close-to-impossible to complete by players with medium gear, for example my main is a wynn 103 and I have a blessed retri +7 1SA (p atk 7%), quite a nice augument. I was lucky to be taken to altar once, everyone except me had shiny gear, mostly pink weapons, everyone including myself used self rose but we still failed due to low dps (we weren't dying, healer was doing very good job, but didn't have enough time).

With my gear I can currently go to Kama with 7ppl, and that's the max I can get. I decided to focus on my dual healer, but also had trouble, so now I'm back to playing wynn trying to figure out what to do next. After fishing I've lost all means of income, but I'm not mentally ready to quit just yet :>

 

Suggest you make your own party to get out of those groups, suggested setup >

Othells make crazy damage so try to find 2 of those, even with bad equipment they will most likely outdamage everyone in group (unless those people are very stacked).

One yul (will help alot to pull agression of stationary captains / assassins) - alternatively you could use a feoh, any class with good AOE damage for the 3rd floor.

One hierophant (POM Needed in weaker groups)

Decent tank & healer.

 

Skip all unnecessary mobs in first two floors, time BR & skills to kill bosses ASAP.

* when pulling captains/assassin in first & 2nd floor, just wait in the "hallway" and let the tank pull the mob as he run past the hallway, to minimize trashmobs.

In last boss, Tank have to focus on Maliss all the time, he needs to cancel the heal of maliss (stun and such) while everyone else kill Isadora.

* Iss can also help with stun, same as othells. but preferably tank should manage it alone so eveyrone can focus on Isadora.

Even with bad equipment, it should be manageable! just make sure tank knows well what to do, in weaker groups it is painful killing Isadora if Maliss keeps healing.

 

[Tribikos]

Hi ppl. I recently reached level 100. I sincerely thought it would be fun to start making new instances that previously could not be low level. But I found the impediment that now is not my level what does not allow me to participate in the 100+ instances, now it is the gear. CC / Baylor / Kama. They ask you to show the weapon, the equipment, when CC / Baylor is a 97+ instance and Kamaloka 99+. Im Spectral wynn summoner and I hit very hard. But since I do not have a weapon +++ or bloody they take me out of many parties. It is very boring to enter the server, wait several hours until you find a party.

And another small problem that is happening lately are the healers. There are few 100+ healers on the server. Some healers in Naia force the party leader to invite one of their other charts under the threat that they will leave the party if they do not. I have seen others (including myself) be expelled without reason from a party... for the healer  put another box chart.

 

 

 

 

[Light616]

There's a few layers to this.

First of all, things always fall on game design. You can never count on "dumb masses" that will play your game to be perfect. 

Back in the day it took forever to get to higher levels. By the time you did, most would already have figured out their class and core basics. And have a general sense of what gear is required to do certain thing.

Now you have pay to win in full force. Clueless people can level up fast, get otherwise unobtainable gear, while learning nothing about the game. Having no nuanced ideas of how things actually work, how to play, what gear is actually required.

Then you have free to play players. Which are in almost the same boat, strangely enough. Leveling up to a certain point, even as a f2p player, is still really fast. By the time they've hit certain levels, they've gotten no idea of how the game works and they've had no time to obtain any gear. ( Not that they can compete with pay to win )

Then you have people that just wanna do something quickly and don't want to waste time teaching some clueless person what to do, or possibly fail the entire thing because of it.

So when all that mixes together, you get a complete sh1t show.

 

 

A suggestion to people starting off: don't rush to higher levels without gear, proper knowledge and someone to play with.

Once you hit 85, work on your dual, then subs. Follow the adventure guild faction quest lines for some important gear pieces. Do at least 10 matches of Olympiad a month, so you can pick up some battle marks as a reward at the end of the month. Keep your dual at 85 so you can do Zaken and Freya for some additional drops. Level up another character, or multiple characters to do the same. Try looking for people that You would enjoy playing with and play together. Once you've hit 90+ try doing K90 group, with your party. Then try Spezion, Fortuna, Istina. If no one from your group knows about these bosses, do some research. You'll start figuring out how the bosses work and whether your gear is suitable enough to complete these instances, even when you make very little or no mistakes. Then try figuring out how to obtain better gear. 

For dungeons / bosses past lv. 90, you should have a 300 element on your weapon, and at the very least 3x60 resists on every piece of armor, as a DD. As a healer / iss, you don't need weapon element right away.

Also, other stats matter. Best bang for the buck, when you're starting off, is crit. rate. Crits will be the way you do most of your dmg. The Drum melody trigger buff will double your crit. dmg. Going for crit. dmg items right away is way too expensive, so just start of with at least having good crit. rate as a dd. Also make sure you're getting the right Ability points. You want element attack, crit. rate, crit. dmg., p.atk, maybe even attack speed. With +40 element attack from AP, you can get by with a 225 element your weapon, for a while.

 Also don't push your favorite class as your main right away. Not every class is equally useful. Unless you're an iss or a healer, don't just make any DD. At the moment, an Evis or Wynn is your best option for doing dungeons / bosses, progressing and thus obtaining gear.

And these are just some things, very roughly put, very general, to keep in mind. There's a million other things to figure out.

And if you just rush to as high level as possible, with no gear, no knowledge, no people to play with, don't expect anything. Don't expect to be invited anywhere, don't expect other people to know anything, don't expect anyone to be nice, don't expect for gear to just fall from the sky, don't expect you'll be able to progress or have fun or... anything. That's just how it is.

[Yidao]

1 hour ago, Light616 said:

There's a few layers to this.

First of all, things always fall on game design. You can never count on "dumb masses" that will play your game to be perfect. 

Back in the day it took forever to get to higher levels. By the time you did, most would already have figured out their class and core basics. And have a general sense of what gear is required to do certain thing.

Now you have pay to win in full force. Clueless people can level up fast, get otherwise unobtainable gear, while learning nothing about the game. Having no nuanced ideas of how things actually work, how to play, what gear is actually required.

Then you have free to play players. Which are in almost the same boat, strangely enough. Leveling up to a certain point, even as a f2p player, is still really fast. By the time they've hit certain levels, they've gotten no idea of how the game works and they've had no time to obtain any gear. ( Not that they can compete with pay to win )

Then you have people that just wanna do something quickly and don't want to waste time teaching some clueless person what to do, or possibly fail the entire thing because of it.

So when all that mixes together, you get a complete sh1t show.

 

 

A suggestion to people starting off: don't rush to higher levels without gear, proper knowledge and someone to play with.

Once you hit 85, work on your dual, then subs. Follow the adventure guild faction quest lines for some important gear pieces. Do at least 10 matches of Olympiad a month, so you can pick up some battle marks as a reward at the end of the month. Keep your dual at 85 so you can do Zaken and Freya for some additional drops. Level up another character, or multiple characters to do the same. Try looking for people that You would enjoy playing with and play together. Once you've hit 90+ try doing K90 group, with your party. Then try Spezion, Fortuna, Istina. If no one from your group knows about these bosses, do some research. You'll start figuring out how the bosses work and whether your gear is suitable enough to complete these instances, even when you make very little or no mistakes. Then try figuring out how to obtain better gear. 

For dungeons / bosses past lv. 90, you should have a 300 element on your weapon, and at the very least 3x60 resists on every piece of armor, as a DD. As a healer / iss, you don't need weapon element right away.

Also, other stats matter. Best bang for the buck, when you're starting off, is crit. rate. Crits will be the way you do most of your dmg. The Drum melody trigger buff will double your crit. dmg. Going for crit. dmg items right away is way too expensive, so just start of with at least having good crit. rate as a dd. Also make sure you're getting the right Ability points. You want element attack, crit. rate, crit. dmg., p.atk, maybe even attack speed. With +40 element attack from AP, you can get by with a 225 element your weapon, for a while.

 Also don't push your favorite class as your main right away. Not every class is equally useful. Unless you're an iss or a healer, don't just make any DD. At the moment, an Evis or Wynn is your best option for doing dungeons / bosses, progressing and thus obtaining gear.

And these are just some things, very roughly put, very general, to keep in mind. There's a million other things to figure out.

And if you just rush to as high level as possible, with no gear, no knowledge, no people to play with, don't expect anything. Don't expect to be invited anywhere, don't expect other people to know anything, don't expect anyone to be nice, don't expect for gear to just fall from the sky, don't expect you'll be able to progress or have fun or... anything. That's just how it is.

I fully agree with this post. Reputation has been added.

[Foxes]

On 3/1/2018 at 1:32 PM, Oeste said:

My biggest disgust with the current state of L2 is the fact that some players keep insisting in isolating everyone but the OP, going into a party room and being accepted just to be told "pls link your weapon" and getting kicked if you "don't meet their standard" is simply stupid...

Isnt stupid at the all, u cant finish kama 7ppl with low gear ppl, even if u have the correct party setup, u will fail... so u must understand the people who doesnt want waste an instance (dont be selfish, even if other people does)... so who blame of this?, its so obvious...

Clean r99 gear has a low drop rate, so that can be expensve for ppl who doesnt donate, seems until k95 u dont need spend money, but after that u will need for sure, Nc soft is not a really fully f2p game...

Regards.

[__SpOO__]

This goes both ways really.

It is annoying when you got asked to link your gear, but and again it is annoying to fail some instance cause of undergeared people trying to level up somehow their toons.

For example, I will never join an AF party with some DDs with like +5+6 R99 weaps. It is a 100% sure fail so why I need to bother and wasting my time? We will go to 50% of the last boss HP and then it is a game over. Saw that a few times already and lesson learnt.

[Argus]

NCsoft create the problem, they make all these ridiculous upgrades to weapons and armours so hard to obtain... Enchanting .. if you want to go higher buy from NCstore, problem and solver - L2Store, if you need to level up your char ... embryo baits .. problem and solver. Back in the days game was all about interaction between players and helping each other out. It was much better to get all core items. so you can participate into a good party, all was needed for you is to play and be active. Nowadays it is not like that as you can all see.

Now the interaction is - I have a problem, no fakin way to solve it but the retarded L2store so I can either get stuff from there or sell that stuff for adena, because I cant also generate adena in any other way. SO I CAN GET some gear   greedy bastards ruined the game while I was not active .. insane idiots! Sry for insulting but they are idiots .. and they are insane! 

[Levy]

I have about 3 hours or less a day to do instances K99/AF/ALTAR and then the weekly GLUDIO/TAVERN/TAUTI/OCTAVIS etc. I would prefer to not waste my 3 hours by adding low geared people and try to carry them through the instances.

Sadly this is how NCSOFT made this game and to do anything you need to spend real $$. If you don't want to spend any money on this game and thats understandable your best bet is have a SUPPORT class as your dual like a TANK/ISS/HEALER and learn how to play it properly! Its very easy to find a party as a support with lower gear.

[Fire]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 7:32 PM, Oeste said:

My biggest disgust with the current state of L2 is the fact that some players keep insisting in isolating everyone but the OP, going into a party room and being accepted just to be told "pls link your weapon" and getting kicked if you "don't meet their standard" is simply stupid. This does not often happen to me, (and when it does I never get kicked), but the rare times people have asked me to link my weapon or they kick someone for this reason makes my blood boil.

I know all the excuses and explanations that are provided for this, but if we don't allow the lower level players to integrate with the end game community how can we expect the population to remain stable?. Nothing happens if you fail altar once or twice in a week but in the process you helped a healer, (or any other class), learn the ropes, the next time you're stuck for 30 minutes looking for a party member, you will have someone to PM and save the day.

So my new year's resolution is: If I am in a party and get asked to link my weapon I will, but then I will drop the party. If someone else is kicked for gear reasons I will drop also and party that guy to do something else.

This is why I left this trash game, I only login to chat with friends and clan members.

The game end when you hit 99, these instances are made for rich players.

[Nortewemko]

The math btw level / gear / instances gear requeriments is broken. Add ncoin and voylaaa, f2p ppl killed.

When u get 99lvl and not sell u heart to get some stuff in game , the game turns in an online the sims with a poor graphics.

7 days far from this "retail private" and no motivation to still play just for spend money to get progress.

 

 

 

[KeepthePeace]

Chronos Server KeepthePeace around 6pm est i usually have 1 or 2 spots for lower geared players for altar and AF both x2. we usually just 4 or 5 man it but when i find a person who normally cant finish it or only kills a few mobs just to make it to end, my 4-5man can do altar 2x on 1 cake and no im not bragging im putting my name out there for a message in game if u wanna tag along we are always welcoming players who can not normally finish said instance.  hope to hear from yall if i dont reply i am working so drop me a in game mail and well get u a few Xpz!~

[HItEye]

I fully understand your position, I started the same .. many times we did not reach the end of the instance because of the low damage in our party. They were bad days, we did everything to improve our teams but the adena is always miserable. And I personally understood that there is no other way to pay to win. Today I can do K99 "SOLO" and I have some friends to do ALTARx2 with a cake and AFx2 + Faction with another cake and we take turns using the cake. In summary the L2 is free until LV99 and then you have to pay. It's the sad reality.

Sorry but my English is not very good

[Feedlee]

Just to share a story I am 105/105 generally I can solo everything in game but I like playing with others so when i join a party I ask them to lower the LVL limit or invite whatever to make party full cause we are ok. What I get is that ppl say that I don't know and sometimes I get kicked cause I am considered noob. So the problem isn t the op characters but some ppl that care only about themselves .

[Chalfont]

It is not about isolation or "standards". It is about success or failing. You can't compete in Altar or AF instances with kelbims. And why you even write about healers, no one cares about what is healers gear. DDs must maintain certain decent level of gear, otherwise they should farm kamalokas/baylors.

 

" your best bet is have a SUPPORT class as your dual like a TANK/ISS/HEALER and learn how to play it properly! Its very easy to find a party as a support with lower gear. "

Haha, no. Paper tank with lower gear is not to be tolerated. No, just no. What's the point if you can play tank properly while dying from 3 mobs in Atelia Fortress

[failfish]

Me it's not so much about my gear, but because i'm a tank, sometimes ill get kicked or declined from a CC/Baylor group or some other easy instances because i'm a tank and people rather have another DD, then i get to the spot and i see the party leader is a DD with +4 weapon and dynasty or twilight +3 gear and i'm like.. Are you serious? lol

Some people don't seem to realize tank in party = party solidarity, and if the instance is easy, tank can go 2 hand stance and do just as much as some DD's if he has a decent weapon.

That being said, i'm totally gonna enjoy refusing all these morons once they desperately need tanks for things like AF/Altar.

[Seraphicas]

My 2 cents in here. I have tried for bout 4 days now to tank a k90 lol! no luck either on that. I'm either kicked for low gears or there's a tank already in party and won't take a 2nd. I make my character a Evas templar and ISS sws to try and do some party play pve..anything ffs...tough sledding if you're new/newer..dead clan..etc..trying here guys to get into this game but definitely shy on dropping the proposed amounts of cash to play at required lvl of gears etc. It did cross my mind however to do just that though! Just to see what this is all about. If I had the confidence it would be around and decent enough activity for a few years or so I'd strongly consider the investment. The confidence in that just isn't there. I am however able to generate 10kk or so daily, it's just not enough to really get into the swing of things.

[failfish]

33 minutes ago, Seraphicas said:

My 2 cents in here. I have tried for bout 4 days now to tank a k90 lol! no luck either on that. I'm either kicked for low gears or there's a tank already in party and won't take a 2nd. I make my character a Evas templar and ISS sws to try and do some party play pve..anything ffs...tough sledding if you're new/newer..dead clan..etc..trying here guys to get into this game but definitely shy on dropping the proposed amounts of cash to play at required lvl of gears etc. It did cross my mind however to do just that though! Just to see what this is all about. If I had the confidence it would be around and decent enough activity for a few years or so I'd strongly consider the investment. The confidence in that just isn't there. I am however able to generate 10kk or so daily, it's just not enough to really get into the swing of things.

I am now a 99 tank and 96 iss as my dual, 17 days old character, i lvled my tank with red libra requests and had the gear to solo/duo k90 so it went pretty smooth for me, but back when i didn't have enough gear to do this, i can say without a doubt that 90-94 was the most frustrating lvls for a tank.. There is already not many k90 groups, but also, as you pointed out, not many people willing to take tanks. 

[Seraphicas]

Yeah it sucks but I grind on man. I'm bout 30% from 95 now/86 on my iss/ 80 Sr / need to finish up my 4th class. It's not really so much to me about having stuff to do, as there is plenty of things available to do, it's about being solo the entire bleeping time. I want some party play man, and the horizon looks so bleak as it seems my struggle will only continue to get worse once I reach higher levels. I think I did damn well so far. Going from the freebie stuff to TW Heavy +3 all 3x60 ele and a lil more on some pieces, +3 apoc cutter with 150 ele thus far, no jewelry yet. Got me some of those freebie talis / jewels but lets face it they are shit. Honestly, there is no other game on the market that indirectly forces you to solo and spend spend spend to even get a party in a MMORPG, least none I've heard of, because those games fail hard and die out. Oh well I guess. Luckily there are other options I have recently found out about that I may try out. Sucks cuz this game, even solo for the most part, is pretty damn cool and fun. 

[Danda12]

The other day the reverse happened to me. i made a room for k99 with randoms.

When we started we did not kill 1st boss on 1st BR. 

So this guy with his twilight gear and requiem wep tells healer to PR because he doesnt like the damage. 

Best part is we wouldve easily done it in 30mins. 

[aelian]

On 1/14/2018 at 10:37 AM, Light616 said:

A suggestion to people starting off: don't rush to higher levels without gear, proper knowledge and someone to play with.
...

Spot on, every new player should understand L2 is an adena acquisition game and not xp aquisition game. Anyone new hunting for xp will have nothing to do in a matter of days.

[aelian]

33 minutes ago, Danda12 said:

So this guy with his twilight gear and requiem wep tells healer to PR because he doesnt like the damage.

You, as a party leader, have the power of /dismiss. Use it generously.

[Oeste]

On 16/1/2018 at 8:44 PM, failfish said:

Me it's not so much about my gear, but because i'm a tank, sometimes ill get kicked or declined from a CC/Baylor group or some other easy instances because i'm a tank and people rather have another DD, then i get to the spot and i see the party leader is a DD with +4 weapon and dynasty or twilight +3 gear and i'm like.. Are you serious? lol

Some people don't seem to realize tank in party = party solidarity, and if the instance is easy, tank can go 2 hand stance and do just as much as some DD's if he has a decent weapon.

That being said, i'm totally gonna enjoy refusing all these morons once they desperately need tanks for things like AF/Altar.

These same idiots will be begging for a tank when they realize the xp they get from cc/bay is nothing.